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British League Rumours

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totallybiasedscarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: British League Rumours
    Posted: 21 July 2019 at 6:25pm
Started a new topic as folk felt it merited a seperate thread to discuss. Rugby Paper Tweet below.



Edited by totallybiasedscarlet - 21 July 2019 at 9:56pm
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2019 at 6:57pm
I dont see why this is so impossible a dream
we have these rather strange pro 14 conferences with teams from 5 nations thousands of miles apart
how hard can it be to have a league with teams fromt he same country?

As usual its down to the english
But lest we forget...
1) RFU lost money last year
2) The english team has really struggled overall for 16 years since world cup triumph
3) The irish teams have dominated europe more than the english
4) Cross border competition may appeal to english fans and players too
5) I think it will raise everything, standards, crowds, atmosphere, development and most vital of all surely extra moola will come in which will improve everything

heres hoping
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2019 at 10:04pm
I'd rather be in an Anglo-Welsh 2nd Division than the Pro14. I am guessing this would end up with 16 English and 4 Welsh teams. So 2 divisions of 10. That would be 1 games, plus any playoffs. Still time for Europe.
Scarlets before Wales
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totallybiasedscarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2019 at 10:04pm
The English Clubs have always acted in their own self interest. Can't blame them to a certain extent, but I can remember them blowing hot and cold with their Welsh counterparts depending on what suited them. I wasn't particularly impressed with the way they conducted themselves with regards to the European Cup either ... so I guess I have my reservations. I would hate to see us get drawn into some kind of inequitable arrangement.

Last point - I very much like the fact we play Leinster, Munster, Ulster & Glasgow. They are amongst the strongest sides in Europe. Even Edinburgh are on the way up. If there's a way to accomodate all four nations, it would be a good thing IMHO.
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 7:59am
I assume for British we should more accurately read British & Irish? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 9:00am
what's the contract for the SA sides? There's even rumours that Pro14 will become 16 with two more SA sides.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 9:41am
Two leagues of 12 clubs in each decided by the finishing positions of the relevant leagues the previous season. Top 6 Gallagher plus top 6 pro 14 would make up the first division. Promotion from the 2nd division to be decided by top 4 play offs as would the overall champions.

Quite where that would leave the English Championship teams or indeed the Heineken cups is debatable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 9:58am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Two leagues of 12 clubs in each decided by the finishing positions of the relevant leagues the previous season. Top 6 Gallagher plus top 6 pro 14 would make up the first division. Promotion from the 2nd division to be decided by top 4 play offs as would the overall champions.

Quite where that would leave the English Championship teams or indeed the Heineken cups is debatable. 

Am I right in assuming from the numbers you quote, that the new league would include the Italians from the PRO14, but exclude the SA sides ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 10:07am
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Two leagues of 12 clubs in each decided by the finishing positions of the relevant leagues the previous season. Top 6 Gallagher plus top 6 pro 14 would make up the first division. Promotion from the 2nd division to be decided by top 4 play offs as would the overall champions.

Quite where that would leave the English Championship teams or indeed the Heineken cups is debatable. 

Am I right in assuming from the numbers you quote, that the new league would include the Italians from the PRO14, but exclude the SA sides ?

No - of course I am only repeating here what I have read. I can only assume that it would be based on the existing 12 Gallagher teams, 4 Welsh regions, 4 Irish regions, 2 Scottish & two additional teams probably from the existing English Championship or maybe a North Wales region and a Borders region. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 10:13am
I think it’s fair to say that it’s a bit more than a rumour. The fact of the matter is if CVC want it they’ve got deep enough pockets to make it happen. 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 10:37am
I hope it is a British league, and doesnt include the Irish, for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 12:09pm
The tone of the quotes, and the fact that the piece was written by Peter Jackson, gives it a high degree of credibility, in my book, although the 2 year time-frame sounds over-ambitious.

It's not clear whether it's a Welsh or an English chairman quoted - even more credibility if he was Saes - but, as Scarletnut says, if CVC can see the commercial benefits of this, their influence in both competitions will make it happen. Can't imagine the Irish would be as thrilled with it, but neither will they want to be left out. 6 year commitment to SA clubs/union would be a sticking point, but not insurmountable.

Lots of devilish detail, but we do not want to miss this boat a second time - interesting times ahead...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote joni_bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 12:31pm
I'd prefer a British-only league. It makes things much simpler. 
A British-Irish league would end up finishing something like this:
Q = ECC Qualified (Top 6 English, 2 Irish, 2 Scottish 2 Welsh join top 7 French + 1 Italian)
(Note: I haven't really thought through the qualifying process for the ECC, the point is that it's a bit of a mess)

British-Irish Premiership
1. Exeter (Q)
2. Glasgow (Q)
3. Saracens (Q)
4. Leinster (Q)
5. Munster (Q)
6. Gloucester (Q)
7. Ulster
8. Harlequins (Q)
9. Connacht
10. Bath (Q)
11. Ospreys (Q)
12. Sale (Q)

British-Irish Championship
1. Scarlets (Q)
2. Wasps
3. Cardiff Blues
4. Worcester
5. Edinburgh (Q)
6. Leicester
7. London Irish
8. Dragons
9. Newcastle 
10. Ealing Trailfinders
11. Bedford
12. Jersey


A British only league might look something like this:
Q = ECC Qualified PO = Playoff

British Premiership
1. Exeter (Q)
2. Glasgow (Q)
3. Saracens (Q)
4. Gloucester (Q)
5. Harlequins (Q)
6. Bath (Q)
7. Ospreys (Q)
8. Sale (Q)
9. Scarlets (Q)
10. Wasps (Q)
11. Cardiff Blues (PO)
12. Worcester (PO)

British Championship
1. Edinburgh (PO)
2. Leicester (PO)
3. London Irish
4. Dragons
5. Newcastle
6. Ealing Trailfinders
7. Bedford Blues
8. Jersey
9. Cornish Pirates
10. Yorkshire Carnegie
11. Nottingham
12. Coventry

Advantages of a British-only league:
Not too many countries competing at the top. 
Simple ECC qualification: Top 10 in the British Premiership qualify for ECC alongside the top 10 from the Hiberno-French-Italian league. 
11th and 12th place teams are in play-offs with teams from the Championship for promotion/relegation as well as ECC qualification so there's double danger of being in the relegation zone.
Teams such as Ealing/Bedford/Jersey/Pirates play against quality opposition with decent crowds.
Scope to introduce Scottish superclubs or development regions such as RGC or Ponty further down the league.
Reading/Bath/Bristol/Gloucester/Worcester etc. are easier to get to than Ireland. 
Lack of Irish fixtures means that ECC isn't devalued as much as it would be with a British-Irish league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 1:22pm
Wonder if CVC are interested in buying into the French Top 14? If possible we would then have a European League set up with 3/4 divisions featuring real promotion/relegation battles. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Wonder if CVC are interested in buying into the French Top 14? If possible we would then have a European League set up with 3/4 divisions featuring real promotion/relegation battles. 
it would not surprise me one bit if their long term goal was to have a global tournament of some sort. They are simply new to rugby but obviously see it as severely under marketed. they have the tools to maximise the marketing of the sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2019 at 2:27pm
It would be ironic if CVC were to get an agreement for a global club tournament, but that World Rugby couldn't get agreement for a global tournament between nations. 

CVC may be slowly heading that way.

Thoughts anyone ?
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