Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > SOCIAL > CHAT BOARD
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


The Brexit bonus...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 31323334>
Author
Message
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 6840
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 9:56am
Much negative comment could be made about this whole disasterous process but the lessons, which were pretty clear to everyone at the outset, remain - Brexit negotiations should have been placed in the hands of a Brexit supporting PM who should have filled their cabinet with like minded people. 

I am afraid the events of the past weeks, readily available on 24 hours news channels, will only drive people further away from their politicians/politics. The job of an opposition, lest we not forget, is to hold a Government accountable. It is not meant to absolve said opposition from any responsibility whatsoever!!!!!
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
roy munster View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Online
Points: 12171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 11:30am
Yeah a brexiteer was needed. Just a shame most of them walked away? I just cannot believe that maybot and the rest of parliament didnt build some kind of consensus and coalition of politicians and world class negotiators on this monstrous issue 2 years ago? Then go into battle with the EU united. A sort of british lions cross collaboration of the top talents. Alas nothing of the kind happened and most of those who did go, fell on their swords as they felt maybot was conceding too much. Now well were asking for an extension and yet again the EU will try to dictate to us and make yet more expensive demands. Maybot needs to flip 75 mps in the next 14 days and keep the rest to win the vote by 1. If she cant then she may have to step down

Edited by roy munster - 15 March 2019 at 11:32am
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Online
Points: 10436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Yeah a brexiteer was needed. Just a shame most of them walked away? I just cannot believe that maybot and the rest of parliament didnt build some kind of consensus and coalition of politicians and world class negotiators on this monstrous issue 2 years ago? Then go into battle with the EU united. A sort of british lions cross collaboration of the top talents. Alas nothing of the kind happened and most of those who did go, fell on their swords as they felt maybot was conceding too much. Now well were asking for an extension and yet again the EU will try to dictate to us and make yet more expensive demands. Maybot needs to flip 75 mps in the next 14 days and keep the rest to win the vote by 1. If she cant then she may have to step down

Using the clock has been her strategy to get the ERG to back down. Although I have read her deal and still struggle to see why Brexiteers are unhappy with it as it seemed to contain most of the points they [apparently] yearned for. It certainly would deliver Brexit and seems harder than Norway options?

But lets face it this was always going to be political and I am surprised people are surprised. Your statement also indicates that Britain can and should have made whatever demands it wanted of the EU, and any lack of acceptance is them dictating terms to us, which is clearly not how compromise works and again part of the problem. 

I honestly see no reason why this had to be a battle in the first place as the EU still will represent our largest trading partner and I consider all the aggressive anti-EU rhetoric to be counter-productive. I've spent my time on these threads actually listening to the arguments of Brexit voters as this was the decision of the referendum and one which both the Government and Opposition said they would respect. Which I in turn respect. I know there is a hardcore second referendum group but I think many Remainers have been similar and most I speak to just want Brexit done. However, has there been much acknowledgement from Brexiteers that 48% voted remain? MPs at least are aware of this issue. So you know if you don't get the pipedream Brexit you want then I have no sympathy.

And I reiterate my point that this Brexit decision isn't the end; any deal or no deal can be changed in due course, or even the EU rejoined, as the political landscape changes. It's been built up to be a bigger deal than it should have been, I think due to the closeness of the vote and also evident splits within each party on the subject. The media stories are starting to get thin now though and are largely repeating themselves so perhaps this will be second page stuff soon.


Edited by dr_martinov - 15 March 2019 at 12:13pm
Back to Top
roy munster View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Online
Points: 12171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Yeah a brexiteer was needed. Just a shame most of them walked away? I just cannot believe that maybot and the rest of parliament didnt build some kind of consensus and coalition of politicians and world class negotiators on this monstrous issue 2 years ago? Then go into battle with the EU united. A sort of british lions cross collaboration of the top talents. Alas nothing of the kind happened and most of those who did go, fell on their swords as they felt maybot was conceding too much. Now well were asking for an extension and yet again the EU will try to dictate to us and make yet more expensive demands. Maybot needs to flip 75 mps in the next 14 days and keep the rest to win the vote by 1. If she cant then she may have to step down

Using the clock has been her strategy to get the ERG to back down. Although I have read her deal and still struggle to see why Brexiteers are unhappy with it as it seemed to contain most of the points they [apparently] yearned for. It certainly would deliver Brexit and seems harder than Norway options?

But lets face it this was always going to be political and I am surprised people are surprised. Your statement also indicates that Britain can and should have made whatever demands it wanted of the EU, and any lack of acceptance is them dictating terms to us, which is clearly not how compromise works and again part of the problem. 

I honestly see no reason why this had to be a battle in the first place as the EU still will represent our largest trading partner and I consider all the aggressive anti-EU rhetoric to be counter-productive. I've spent my time on these threads actually listening to the arguments of Brexit voters as this was the decision of the referendum and one which both the Government and Opposition said they would respect. Which I in turn respect. I know there is a hardcore second referendum group but I think many Remainers have been similar and most I speak to just want Brexit done. However, has there been much acknowledgement from Brexiteers that 48% voted remain? MPs at least are aware of this issue. So you know if you don't get the pipedream Brexit you want then I have no sympathy.

And I reiterate my point that this Brexit decision isn't the end; any deal or no deal can be changed in due course, or even the EU rejoined, as the political landscape changes. It's been built up to be a bigger deal than it should have been, I think due to the closeness of the vote and also evident splits within each party on the subject. The media stories are starting to get thin now though and are largely repeating themselves so perhaps this will be second page stuff soon.

Everything seems to come down to the never-ending backstop , any ideas on  solution there Doc?
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
Back to Top
Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 11718
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 5:04pm
Ah yes, the backstop.  On the one hand Brexiteers say there isn't a problem, we don't need a hard border because the technolgy is there, its easy to do so lets get on with it.  And in the next breath they won't accept an agreement that stays in place until the solution to the technology is found, just in case a solution isn't found - but its easy isn't it, oh hold on.  Nuts mun.  
That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Online
Points: 10436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 5:28pm
I find it a bit confusing so please correct me if I get any of this wrong. I think the gist is that if the UK leaves the EU then a hard border would automatically be created between NI and the ROI. As this is in breach of the good friday agreement, people want to avoid this at all costs. Meaning some other agreement to ensure relatively easy trade between the two is required and this is the so-called "backstop". This backstop however basically forces the whole UK to have a trade deal with the EU OR treat NI and the rest of the UK differently.

Those're the options as I see it so my solution is option 1 out of the two. I think this is what has been suggested as well but the ERG group don't like it. Not quite sure the DUP's stance. There is a genuine risk of the troubles resurfacing though if the GFA is broken and this issue (which I hadn't thought about whatsoever) has taken many off guard as a sticking point.

There you go. I admit I am pretty ignorant and very happy to be corrected or challenged on any of that!
Back to Top
Winston View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 September 2018
Location: Llanharan
Status: Offline
Points: 315
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 5:31pm
Clear as mud lol. Yes I agree. We all forgot about the GFA including all of Westminster
Back to Top
Ffidel Bennett View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 31 August 2014
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 5655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 6:18pm
Of course the simplest solution would be that the North would gain its rightful place as part of a United Ireland as happens seamlessly on the International rugby scene. Unfortunately, Perfidious Albion, whatever it says publicly, has always worked against this, and as one time world champion in the divide and conquer field it will take a lot to purge the evil that they have perpetrated over the years and are still working on. 
I leave you with former British ambassador Craig Murray's current blog. -
Back to Top
roy munster View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Online
Points: 12171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 7:38pm
Irish politics is way beyond our pay grade. But its hard to believe this in issue has derailed brexit. Its also hard to believe that a solution or compromise couldnt or cant be found. 
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
Back to Top
Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 11718
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Irish politics is way beyond our pay grade. But its hard to believe this in issue has derailed brexit. Its also hard to believe that a solution or compromise couldnt or cant be found. 
There really isn't a solution apart from staying in the EU.
That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Online
Points: 10436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Irish politics is way beyond our pay grade. But its hard to believe this in issue has derailed brexit. Its also hard to believe that a solution or compromise couldnt or cant be found. 

I'll update my post to say the DUP's stance is they don't want NI being treated differently, which was option 2 I set out:

"To the DUP, the backstop represented its worst fears come to life: regulatory differences meaning only NI would continue to follow some EU rules, no time limit and the ability to exit the backstop would need to be agreed jointly by the UK and EU."
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46903876

So I think ERG object to option 1 while the DUP object to option 2. TM needs both to back her, or some Labour/Indy MPs of course, to pass a deal.
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Online
Points: 10436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 8:37pm
I think TM's actual goals are a) to keep the Tory party together and b) to keep the Union intact.

As we can see above, aspects of Brexit certainly threaten Ireland/NI stability while no doubt a Scottish independence referendum would give a slightly different result were it held now.

This is why I know Brexit is important but have said there's a longer term game being played here. If TM's deal - or close variant thereof - is accepted, she may even be viewed quite positively for her handling of such a difficult situation from effectively a minority Government. As you said Roy no one else wanted the job so maybe she is playing a blinder with a poor hand, who knows?
Back to Top
Ffidel Bennett View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 31 August 2014
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 5655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 9:13pm
May is a remainer supposedly working to achieve Brexit. If she is playing a blinder pray tell for what side? 
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Online
Points: 10436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2019 at 10:15am
Why's everyone blaming the speaker? TM is trying to pass basically the same bill that was rejected by MPs already and by a sizable majority. And now everybody desperately wants that same bill to go the the House so it can be passed and so are kicking off that Bercow blocked it? Honestly, this is absolutely laughable. At the least this has been a good opportunity to learn more about how the House functions for many, including our Government it seems.

Edited by dr_martinov - 19 March 2019 at 10:16am
Back to Top
roy munster View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Online
Points: 12171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2019 at 10:21am
how many times has it been voted on
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
Back to Top
ap sior View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 7862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2019 at 11:59am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

how many times has it been voted on

Twice I believe.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 31323334>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.