Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > SOCIAL > CHAT BOARD
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


The Brexit bonus...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 373839
Author
Message
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 10489
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2019 at 8:25pm
Boris has finally officially thrown his top hat into the ring:


A polarising character, to put it politely.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 14647
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Boris has finally officially thrown his top hat into the ring:


A polarising character, to put it politely.

Boris would never have got taken seriously in any sensible political situation - some highlights from Wikipedia:


Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (born 19 June 1964), better known as Boris Johnson, is a British politician, journalist ...

Johnson was awarded a King's Scholarship to study at Eton College, the elite independent boarding school in Eton, Berkshire.[39] Arriving in the autumn term of 1977,[40] Johnson began using the given name Boris rather than Alex and developed "the eccentric English persona" for which would become known.[41] He abandoned his mother's Catholicism and became an Anglican, joining the Church of England.[42] Although school reports complained about his idleness, complacency, and lateness,[43] he was popular and well known at Eton.[41] His friends were largely from the wealthy upper-middle and upper classes, his best friends being Darius Guppy and Charles Spencer, both of whom would accompany him to Oxford University and remain friends into adulthood.

Johnson won a scholarship to read Literae Humaniores, a four-year course based in the study of Classics, at Balliol College, Oxford.[52] Arriving at the university in late 1983,[53] he was part of a generation of Oxford undergraduates who dominated British politics and media in the early 21st century, among them senior Conservative Party members David CameronWilliam HagueMichael GoveJeremy Hunt, and Nick Boles.[54] At the university, he played rugby for Balliol,[55] and associated primarily with Old Etonians, joining the Old Etonian-dominated Bullingdon Club, an upper-class drinking society known for vandalism.[56][57] Johnson entered into a relationship with the aristocrat Allegra Mostyn-Owen and they became engaged while at university.

In 1984, Johnson was elected secretary of the Oxford Union,[61] before campaigning for the position of Union president, losing the election to Neil Sherlock.[62] In 1986, Johnson ran for president again, aided by undergraduate Frank Luntz; his campaign focused on reaching out from his established upper-class support base by emphasising his persona and downplaying his Conservative connections.[63] Hoping to court their vote, Johnson associated with university groups affiliated with the centrist Social Democratic Party (SDP) and Liberal Party.[64] Luntz later alleged that Johnson portrayed himself as an SDP supporter during the campaign, although Johnson claims no recollection of this.

Johnson won the election and was appointed president,[66] although his presidency was not seen as particularly distinguished or memorable,[67] and questions were raised regarding his competency and seriousness.

Scandal erupted in June 1995 when a recording of a 1990 telephone conversation between Johnson and his friend Darius Guppy was made public.[107] In the conversation, Guppy revealed that his criminal activities were being investigated by News of the World journalist Stuart Collier, and he asked Johnson to provide him with Collier's private address, seeking to have the latter beaten up. Johnson agreed to supply the information although he expressed concern that he would be associated with the attack.[107] When the phone conversation was published in 1995, Johnson insisted that he did not ultimately give the information to Guppy; Hastings reprimanded Johnson but did not sack him.

Just a few of the highlights - God help us if Boris ever makes it to number 10.
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 10861
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Boris has finally officially thrown his top hat into the ring:


A polarising character, to put it politely.

Boris would never have got taken seriously in any sensible political situation - some highlights from Wikipedia:


Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (born 19 June 1964), better known as Boris Johnson, is a British politician, journalist ...

Johnson was awarded a King's Scholarship to study at Eton College, the elite independent boarding school in Eton, Berkshire.[39] Arriving in the autumn term of 1977,[40] Johnson began using the given name Boris rather than Alex and developed "the eccentric English persona" for which would become known.[41] He abandoned his mother's Catholicism and became an Anglican, joining the Church of England.[42] Although school reports complained about his idleness, complacency, and lateness,[43] he was popular and well known at Eton.[41] His friends were largely from the wealthy upper-middle and upper classes, his best friends being Darius Guppy and Charles Spencer, both of whom would accompany him to Oxford University and remain friends into adulthood.

Johnson won a scholarship to read Literae Humaniores, a four-year course based in the study of Classics, at Balliol College, Oxford.[52] Arriving at the university in late 1983,[53] he was part of a generation of Oxford undergraduates who dominated British politics and media in the early 21st century, among them senior Conservative Party members David CameronWilliam HagueMichael GoveJeremy Hunt, and Nick Boles.[54] At the university, he played rugby for Balliol,[55] and associated primarily with Old Etonians, joining the Old Etonian-dominated Bullingdon Club, an upper-class drinking society known for vandalism.[56][57] Johnson entered into a relationship with the aristocrat Allegra Mostyn-Owen and they became engaged while at university.

In 1984, Johnson was elected secretary of the Oxford Union,[61] before campaigning for the position of Union president, losing the election to Neil Sherlock.[62] In 1986, Johnson ran for president again, aided by undergraduate Frank Luntz; his campaign focused on reaching out from his established upper-class support base by emphasising his persona and downplaying his Conservative connections.[63] Hoping to court their vote, Johnson associated with university groups affiliated with the centrist Social Democratic Party (SDP) and Liberal Party.[64] Luntz later alleged that Johnson portrayed himself as an SDP supporter during the campaign, although Johnson claims no recollection of this.

Johnson won the election and was appointed president,[66] although his presidency was not seen as particularly distinguished or memorable,[67] and questions were raised regarding his competency and seriousness.

Scandal erupted in June 1995 when a recording of a 1990 telephone conversation between Johnson and his friend Darius Guppy was made public.[107] In the conversation, Guppy revealed that his criminal activities were being investigated by News of the World journalist Stuart Collier, and he asked Johnson to provide him with Collier's private address, seeking to have the latter beaten up. Johnson agreed to supply the information although he expressed concern that he would be associated with the attack.[107] When the phone conversation was published in 1995, Johnson insisted that he did not ultimately give the information to Guppy; Hastings reprimanded Johnson but did not sack him.

Just a few of the highlights - God help us if Boris ever makes it to number 10.
 
 
he would when he is up against corbyn, who may possibly be the only labour leader ever who is more inept and unlikeable than boris!
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Points: 10489
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2019 at 9:51pm
Whether you agree with them or not, at least Corbyn has principles.

But it's hard in UK politics to separate the media personality - coveted or not - from actual policies.
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 14647
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 6:31am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Whether you agree with them or not, at least Corbyn has principles.

But it's hard in UK politics to separate the media personality - coveted or not - from actual policies.

The problem at the moment is that both main parties are led by fence-sitters, so there's a lack of clarity. May only became PM because she kept her head under the parapet during the referendum, and because of the shenanigans between Gove and Boris, and the general uselessness of the candidates.

Corbyn is by instinct a leaver, but he's tried to keep Labour's options open as he doesn't want to offend either set of voters. It's a pity that Labour isn't being led by a remainer, as then - considering the pathetic performance of the government in the 'negotiations' - a pro- Remain leader could have said:
"This Brexit business is a complete f**k-up - let's campaign to stay in and give the people a choice." As it is, the only parties campaigning for Remain are smaller ones - Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, Greens etc. Into this political vacuum steps none other than Nigel Farage, whose pop-up party has the benefit of a clear message - no wonder he's polling well, with the Remain vote split between a number of different groups.

The only way to get final clarity on the way to go is to put the deal, whatever it may be, to a public vote.
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 7197
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 8:24am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Whether you agree with them or not, at least Corbyn has principles.

But it's hard in UK politics to separate the media personality - coveted or not - from actual policies.

The problem at the moment is that both main parties are led by fence-sitters, so there's a lack of clarity. May only became PM because she kept her head under the parapet during the referendum, and because of the shenanigans between Gove and Boris, and the general uselessness of the candidates.

Corbyn is by instinct a leaver, but he's tried to keep Labour's options open as he doesn't want to offend either set of voters. It's a pity that Labour isn't being led by a remainer, as then - considering the pathetic performance of the government in the 'negotiations' - a pro- Remain leader could have said:
"This Brexit business is a complete f**k-up - let's campaign to stay in and give the people a choice." As it is, the only parties campaigning for Remain are smaller ones - Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, Greens etc. Into this political vacuum steps none other than Nigel Farage, whose pop-up party has the benefit of a clear message - no wonder he's polling well, with the Remain vote split between a number of different groups.

The only way to get final clarity on the way to go is to put the deal, whatever it may be, to a public vote.

Aber much of your summation I agree with. However for me the only clarity required is for the referendum result to be delivered. That should have entailed leaving the EU on 29th March regardless of whether a deal was done or not. I guess the way forward now that May & Corbyn have bollocks it up so badly is for a leave leader to win the Tory leadership contest, return to Brussels and attempt to renegotiate or failing that leave on 31/10/2019 regardless. 
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 14647
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 10:01am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Whether you agree with them or not, at least Corbyn has principles.

But it's hard in UK politics to separate the media personality - coveted or not - from actual policies.

The problem at the moment is that both main parties are led by fence-sitters, so there's a lack of clarity. May only became PM because she kept her head under the parapet during the referendum, and because of the shenanigans between Gove and Boris, and the general uselessness of the candidates.

Corbyn is by instinct a leaver, but he's tried to keep Labour's options open as he doesn't want to offend either set of voters. It's a pity that Labour isn't being led by a remainer, as then - considering the pathetic performance of the government in the 'negotiations' - a pro- Remain leader could have said:
"This Brexit business is a complete f**k-up - let's campaign to stay in and give the people a choice." As it is, the only parties campaigning for Remain are smaller ones - Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, Greens etc. Into this political vacuum steps none other than Nigel Farage, whose pop-up party has the benefit of a clear message - no wonder he's polling well, with the Remain vote split between a number of different groups.

The only way to get final clarity on the way to go is to put the deal, whatever it may be, to a public vote.

Aber much of your summation I agree with. However for me the only clarity required is for the referendum result to be delivered. That should have entailed leaving the EU on 29th March regardless of whether a deal was done or not. I guess the way forward now that May & Corbyn have bollocks it up so badly is for a leave leader to win the Tory leadership contest, return to Brussels and attempt to renegotiate or failing that leave on 31/10/2019 regardless. 

This is the problem, though, isn't it?

No-one had the slightest clue what 'Brexit' would look like when they voted - they voted blind.

The MPs can't agree on a single version of Brexit - May's version has been voted down three times already, and will almost certainly be voted down yet again next month. 

Let's have a clear version of this Brexit, and let the people decide on something specific - not the 'cake and eat it' Brexit which never existed, except in the fevered imaginations of Farage and his lickspittles. Even Farage himself admitted that the £300 million extra per week for the NHS was a lie - the day after the vote!!!
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 7197
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 10:25am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Whether you agree with them or not, at least Corbyn has principles.

But it's hard in UK politics to separate the media personality - coveted or not - from actual policies.

The problem at the moment is that both main parties are led by fence-sitters, so there's a lack of clarity. May only became PM because she kept her head under the parapet during the referendum, and because of the shenanigans between Gove and Boris, and the general uselessness of the candidates.

Corbyn is by instinct a leaver, but he's tried to keep Labour's options open as he doesn't want to offend either set of voters. It's a pity that Labour isn't being led by a remainer, as then - considering the pathetic performance of the government in the 'negotiations' - a pro- Remain leader could have said:
"This Brexit business is a complete f**k-up - let's campaign to stay in and give the people a choice." As it is, the only parties campaigning for Remain are smaller ones - Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, Greens etc. Into this political vacuum steps none other than Nigel Farage, whose pop-up party has the benefit of a clear message - no wonder he's polling well, with the Remain vote split between a number of different groups.

The only way to get final clarity on the way to go is to put the deal, whatever it may be, to a public vote.

Aber much of your summation I agree with. However for me the only clarity required is for the referendum result to be delivered. That should have entailed leaving the EU on 29th March regardless of whether a deal was done or not. I guess the way forward now that May & Corbyn have bollocks it up so badly is for a leave leader to win the Tory leadership contest, return to Brussels and attempt to renegotiate or failing that leave on 31/10/2019 regardless. 

This is the problem, though, isn't it?

No-one had the slightest clue what 'Brexit' would look like when they voted - they voted blind.

The MPs can't agree on a single version of Brexit - May's version has been voted down three times already, and will almost certainly be voted down yet again next month. 

Let's have a clear version of this Brexit, and let the people decide on something specific - not the 'cake and eat it' Brexit which never existed, except in the fevered imaginations of Farage and his lickspittles. Even Farage himself admitted that the £300 million extra per week for the NHS was a lie - the day after the vote!!!

Therein lies my problem with that argument. Every referendum/election is actually voted on blind - will the policies included in the party's manifesto actually see the light of day? If Wales voted for Independence would it benefit? etc etc. Most people who voted for Brexit totally ignored the nonsense talked by both sides - my take on the £350m per week was that yes we would certainly be saving a vast sum, somewhere between £8-12 billion per year, which would add to the Exchequer's funds. 

I also chose to ignore Osbourne's figure that each household would be £4000 per year worse off & that the UK economy would fall off a cliff. One figure I can safely quote you is that leaving without a deal on 29/03/2019 would have given us an additional £39 billion to support our Economy through whatever turbulence was created by switching to WTO rules whilst we negotiated free trade deals around the World. Free trade deals, by the way, with many countries who we currently deal with and many who are in the EU who sell more to us than we do to them. 

I am afraid that appointing a remainer to lead us though the negotiations has been a total waste of time; taking no deal off the table totally scuppered any hopes of driving a good deal & the total fixation with the Irish border non issue has cost the UK immeasurably. It is well beyond time that May went and a staunch advocate of leaving is appointed. It is a very sad indictment of British politics & politicians that a one policy party can be so far ahead in the poles for next weeks Euro elections.
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 14647
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 5:20pm
You are free to believe the claim about the NHS if you want - but why, then, did Farage say it was a lie the day after the referendum?

I think it was a lie - pure and simple.
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 7197
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 8:31am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

You are free to believe the claim about the NHS if you want - but why, then, did Farage say it was a lie the day after the referendum?

I think it was a lie - pure and simple.

I thought my comment above about the savings available from leaving the EU was pretty clear - I agreed with you that I too didn't believe the £350 million per week. Lies were peddled by both sides and most discerning voters would have ignored the headline grabbing statements and concentrated on the known facts.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 373839
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.