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2020 Six Nations Talking Points

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 10:08am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 
 
Reeks of the ufc or the wwe more than rugby, this trash talking is nonsense and does nothing to promote the game
 
The fixture is already a sell out and it's not like trying to hype an event for PPV sales
 
Players should be more respectful and ensure they represent the game in a proper manner
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 

Quite so.

Go out to batter the hell out of your opponent on the pitch - shake hands and have a few pints afterwards, and a good chat.

Harder to do if there's been a lot of verbal abuse pre-match.


Edited by aber-fan - 06 February 2020 at 1:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 

Quite so.

Go out to batter the hell out of your opponent on the pitch - shake hands and have a few pints afterwards, and a good chat.

Harder to do if there's been a lot of verbal abuse pre-match.

I very much hope that in the build up to the England game we don't indulge in this sort of rhetoric. You should always respect your opponent, your never know what will happen when the first bell rings. Even the best can be a victim to a sucker punch. 

You've then got a long fall ahead of you.


Edited by ap sior - 06 February 2020 at 2:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 

Quite so.

Go out to batter the hell out of your opponent on the pitch - shake hands and have a few pints afterwards, and a good chat.

Harder to do if there's been a lot of verbal abuse pre-match.

I very much hope that in the build up to the England game we don't indulge in this sort of rhetoric. You should always respect your opponent, your never know what will happen when the first bell rings. Even the best can be a victim to a sucker punch. 

You've then got a long fall ahead of you.

Spot on - Pivac has never indulged in that nonsense so can't see him starting now. As for our players they have  a very experienced leadership group who would not tolerate such nonsense. England are lacking that leadership. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 

Quite so.

Go out to batter the hell out of your opponent on the pitch - shake hands and have a few pints afterwards, and a good chat.

Harder to do if there's been a lot of verbal abuse pre-match.

I very much hope that in the build up to the England game we don't indulge in this sort of rhetoric. You should always respect your opponent, your never know what will happen when the first bell rings. Even the best can be a victim to a sucker punch. 

You've then got a long fall ahead of you.

Spot on - Pivac has never indulged in that nonsense so can't see him starting now. As for our players they have  a very experienced leadership group who would not tolerate such nonsense. England are lacking that leadership. 
I would say they lack the class too.
it starts from the top down.
 
Eddie has hardly given the players a good example to follow has he!
 
seems its a squad where anything goes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 
paper talk gareth,seem to remember something the week before England v wales in 1981 wonder what happened there.Ouch
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2020 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 
paper talk gareth,seem to remember something the week before England v wales in 1981 wonder what happened there.Ouch

Are you thinking of the Paul Ringer match? That was 1980 - Wales won 21-19 in 1981.

I have never seen such a concerted attack on a rugby team by the press - the English papers were full of how dirty Wales were all week, and probably for longer than that.

I was at the game, and I have NEVER seen any team, anywhere, get such a hostile reception from the crowd... and that was before the kick-off! Quite a contrast to the usual rather placid atmosphere at HQ, back in those days... It was clearly driven by envy of Wales's success during the 1970s, the fact that England had only managed one win since 1963, and the fact that they felt they had a chance of the title, for once... In those circumstances, no surprise at all that Ringer got sent off, though the ref chose to ignore the punches thrown by John Scott (Cardiff and England) shortly before, as well as much worse foul play by both sides after the sending off. These days, with TMOs, both sides would have been lucky to finish with 10 players apiece.

For the record, England won by three penalties (9) to two tries (8 in those days), and went on to 'triumph' with a grand slam. Pathetic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 6:30am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is it with the English 6 nations camp. Firstly we have Eddie shooting his mouth off & winding up the French now we have Lewis Ludlam saying we hate the Scots and they hate us. What sort of language is that for professional athletes? The whole attitude and demeanour of this squad looks to be way off what is required for a successful group - where is the humility and respect often preached by Saracens. Something is not right in that camp and it is badly in need of leadership. A bad result on Saturday, which lets face it, is on the cards & I think we may see the end of Eddie. 

To be fair they are only giving as good as they get. Ryan Wilson was a right load at the players awards a couple years ago shouting "bollocks" every time an England players name was called out. Ultimate $hithousery but its great. John Barclay was on the rugby pod yesterday he was saying he is glad there is a bit of niggle between the two teams as it builds the rivalry. I am actually more excited for this match Saturday as Scotland have retained the last 2 Calcutta Cups, Murrayfield will be bouncing.  

Rivalry in one thing & Wilson is a classic case but language used is extremely important. Ferocity is better than brutality;no love lost is better than hate. Fine lines but huge margins in my opinion. 
paper talk gareth,seem to remember something the week before England v wales in 1981 wonder what happened there.Ouch

Are you thinking of the Paul Ringer match? That was 1980 - Wales won 21-19 in 1981.

I have never seen such a concerted attack on a rugby team by the press - the English papers were full of how dirty Wales were all week, and probably for longer than that.

I was at the game, and I have NEVER seen any team, anywhere, get such a hostile reception from the crowd... and that was before the kick-off! Quite a contrast to the usual rather placid atmosphere at HQ, back in those days... It was clearly driven by envy of Wales's success during the 1970s, the fact that England had only managed one win since 1963, and the fact that they felt they had a chance of the title, for once... In those circumstances, no surprise at all that Ringer got sent off, though the ref chose to ignore the punches thrown by John Scott (Cardiff and England) shortly before, as well as much worse foul play by both sides after the sending off. These days, with TMOs, both sides would have been lucky to finish with 10 players apiece.

For the record, England won by three penalties (9) to two tries (8 in those days), and went on to 'triumph' with a grand slam. Pathetic!
"one year out" that's the one,couldn't get a ticket but watched it in a hotel by Piccadilly circus,dusty hare with a touchline kick to win game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turkpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 7:53am
I sneaked in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 8:06am
Speaking of thuggery or accusations thereof, dunno if I was that impressed the BBC having Hartley and Cheika as pundits. Hartley spoke well in fairness and I did find him interesting (a player who just loses it on the pitch in the moment I can understand, although this was way too often) but Cheika is a coach who deliberately coached career-ending tactics to make up for his teams lack of skill and basically admitted it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 8:17am
Although thinking about it I thought Hartley was good actually and you need a change from the boring nice guy types, plus Faf seemed a nice guy. And BBC is way better than ITV's stacked England bunch - Woodenhead, Wilko and Dayglo together my god....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 8:21am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Although thinking about it I thought Hartley was good actually and you need a change from the boring nice guy types, plus Faf seemed a nice guy. And BBC is way better than ITV's stacked England bunch - Woodenhead, Wilko and Dayglo together my god....


Yes Hartley came across as a shrewd observer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 8:46am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Although thinking about it I thought Hartley was good actually and you need a change from the boring nice guy types, plus Faf seemed a nice guy. And BBC is way better than ITV's stacked England bunch - Woodenhead, Wilko and Dayglo together my god....


 

Yes Hartley came across as a shrewd observer. 

He also didn't mince his words about the Saracens affair which I took as an indication of the tensions there must be in the England camp. Another interesting comment-that came from Tompkins- was that he was shocked that there were no cliques in the Welsh squad.  That comes from the senior players, perhaps particularly Ken.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 9:51am
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Although thinking about it I thought Hartley was good actually and you need a change from the boring nice guy types, plus Faf seemed a nice guy. And BBC is way better than ITV's stacked England bunch - Woodenhead, Wilko and Dayglo together my god....


 

Yes Hartley came across as a shrewd observer. 

He also didn't mince his words about the Saracens affair which I took as an indication of the tensions there must be in the England camp. Another interesting comment-that came from Tompkins- was that he was shocked that there were no cliques in the Welsh squad.  That comes from the senior players, perhaps particularly Ken.


If it all came from one player that probably would be clique-inducing! Or a dictatorship? I suspect all the senior players have worked on putting club rivalries aside in the Wales camp in honesty, I bet AWJ is really good at that. Maybe helped because Wales is smaller and only has 4 pro clubs so many players have moved around the regions. Plus has been a stable coaching setup for many years and the headcoach was not welsh so with no tribal loyalty. But yes, good to hear and Tompkins gave the impression it was a good vibe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 10:18am
Cheika was reasonable I thought, good to have a international head coach giving his perspective. Compare that with Wilkinson and O’driscoll to be honest they didn’t really add anything I haven’t heard 100 times before from ex-players.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2020 at 10:20am
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Another interesting comment-that came from Tompkins- was that he was shocked that there were no cliques in the Welsh squad.  That comes from the senior players, perhaps particularly Ken.


I thought this significant, too, and a credit to the Wales players & set-up.

When you look at the resources and player numbers available to the RFU, and the level of competition in the English Premiership, you wonder why they aren't winning annual Grand Slams and putting their name on the William Webb Ellis trophy every four years.

Then you see the turn-over in the England elite squad, and the players overlooked for selections in favour of regulars (are there really no in-form 9s available?!), and you hear about the dysfunctional behaviour of the squad (cliques & Sarries players being overpaid at others' expense), and it starts to make sense. Eddie Jones inciting 'brutality' doesn't seem to help, but then neither did Stuart Lancaster's softer, more intelligent approach.

For perspective, two games ago they were in a World Cup Final, so I guess it's all relative, but I still find it mildly astonishing that England don't comfortably beat their opposition in every single game.
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