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60 cap rule : a review.

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 60 cap rule : a review.
    Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:17am
As someone who wrongly assumed that Project Reset was a genuine attempt to reward ambitious well run regions with new investment designed to make our regions better able to compete with the Irish I now find myself questioning the logic of the rule set up to encourage players to play in Wales. 

Lets assume that the real intention all along by the WRU is to maximise the performance of the International team; lets further assume that the WRU accept that it doesn't have enough finance currently available in the Welsh game to improve the region/s. In this scenario surely it is commercially more viable that the WRU allows its star players to play overseas regardless of number of caps. This would mean that the regions do not have to bear the costs of these players and can devote their limited funds to developing the stars of the future. 

Of course that means that we will become a breeding ground for the French/English leagues but if we are really being honest that is what we really are now as evidenced by the total shambles that has been Project Reset. The silence from Phillips & Davies of the WRU since the events of last week has been a very true reflection of the state of rugby in Wales. Nobody is in charge and nobody really has a plan. 
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scarletnut View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:45am
There is absolutely no budging on the 60 cap rule whatsoever. It's here to stay.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:48am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

There is absolutely no budging on the 60 cap rule whatsoever. It's here to stay.
 

  I would go a step further and make it stay in Wales to play for Wales and scrap the 60 cap ruling .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:59am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

As someone who wrongly assumed that Project Reset was a genuine attempt to reward ambitious well run regions with new investment designed to make our regions better able to compete with the Irish I now find myself questioning the logic of the rule set up to encourage players to play in Wales. 

Lets assume that the real intention all along by the WRU is to maximise the performance of the International team; lets further assume that the WRU accept that it doesn't have enough finance currently available in the Welsh game to improve the region/s. In this scenario surely it is commercially more viable that the WRU allows its star players to play overseas regardless of number of caps. This would mean that the regions do not have to bear the costs of these players and can devote their limited funds to developing the stars of the future. 

Of course that means that we will become a breeding ground for the French/English leagues but if we are really being honest that is what we really are now as evidenced by the total shambles that has been Project Reset. The silence from Phillips & Davies of the WRU since the events of last week has been a very true reflection of the state of rugby in Wales. Nobody is in charge and nobody really has a plan. 


You didn’t make the wrong assumption at all.

It’s resorted to a thinly veiled cost cutting, pitchforks at the ready, inter regional feud.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

As someone who wrongly assumed that Project Reset was a genuine attempt to reward ambitious well run regions with new investment designed to make our regions better able to compete with the Irish I now find myself questioning the logic of the rule set up to encourage players to play in Wales. 

Lets assume that the real intention all along by the WRU is to maximise the performance of the International team; lets further assume that the WRU accept that it doesn't have enough finance currently available in the Welsh game to improve the region/s. In this scenario surely it is commercially more viable that the WRU allows its star players to play overseas regardless of number of caps. This would mean that the regions do not have to bear the costs of these players and can devote their limited funds to developing the stars of the future. 

Of course that means that we will become a breeding ground for the French/English leagues but if we are really being honest that is what we really are now as evidenced by the total shambles that has been Project Reset. The silence from Phillips & Davies of the WRU since the events of last week has been a very true reflection of the state of rugby in Wales. Nobody is in charge and nobody really has a plan. 
 
The reason the Welsh team has been so successful, relatively, in the last decade is because the vast majority of players have been in Wales and under the control of Gatland and the WRU. It's a huge advantage, which you can also see from the performance of Ireland over this period.
 
Conversely, look at the appalling state of the French national team over the same period. A big factor in that is the French coaches having nowhere near the same advantages with their players as the Welsh and Irish do.
 
As soon as we surrender the core of our national squad to France or England, results will suffer big time and the impact of a poor national side will harm rugby in Wales at every level eventually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 1:39pm
I think moffett and others are just talking about the top few superstars who are demanding the highest wages.....moffett and others recommend we dont get into a bidding war for their services....offer the best we can afford, with fringe benefits you get player protection, ndc's, familiar coaching set up world class training facilities, less travel, closer to friends and family etc Theres also the addition of media work available in wales to a lot of welsh stars....the elite players like foxy warburton shane williams jamie roberts get a load of media and advertising work... hadleigh parkes does is regular paper column etc this must all add ...it also builds towards their future careers as pundits, after dinner speaking , writing columns etc look at warburton? Hes slipped into the punditry role like a duck to water....if hed been in france the previous 5 years that opportunity may not have presented itself
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

As someone who wrongly assumed that Project Reset was a genuine attempt to reward ambitious well run regions with new investment designed to make our regions better able to compete with the Irish I now find myself questioning the logic of the rule set up to encourage players to play in Wales. 

Lets assume that the real intention all along by the WRU is to maximise the performance of the International team; lets further assume that the WRU accept that it doesn't have enough finance currently available in the Welsh game to improve the region/s. In this scenario surely it is commercially more viable that the WRU allows its star players to play overseas regardless of number of caps. This would mean that the regions do not have to bear the costs of these players and can devote their limited funds to developing the stars of the future. 

Of course that means that we will become a breeding ground for the French/English leagues but if we are really being honest that is what we really are now as evidenced by the total shambles that has been Project Reset. The silence from Phillips & Davies of the WRU since the events of last week has been a very true reflection of the state of rugby in Wales. Nobody is in charge and nobody really has a plan. 
 
The reason the Welsh team has been so successful, relatively, in the last decade is because the vast majority of players have been in Wales and under the control of Gatland and the WRU. It's a huge advantage, which you can also see from the performance of Ireland over this period.
 
Conversely, look at the appalling state of the French national team over the same period. A big factor in that is the French coaches having nowhere near the same advantages with their players as the Welsh and Irish do.
 
As soon as we surrender the core of our national squad to France or England, results will suffer big time and the impact of a poor national side will harm rugby in Wales at every level eventually.

Of course you mention France but their demise can be put down to too many foreign players in their league & woeful coaching decisions. What about England - they seem to be doing ok with no pampering of their stars? Lets be totally honest about this if Cawdor, Adams, Rob Evans, Moriarty, Beard & Ball decided to leave then the 60 cap rule would disappear overnight. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

As someone who wrongly assumed that Project Reset was a genuine attempt to reward ambitious well run regions with new investment designed to make our regions better able to compete with the Irish I now find myself questioning the logic of the rule set up to encourage players to play in Wales. 

Lets assume that the real intention all along by the WRU is to maximise the performance of the International team; lets further assume that the WRU accept that it doesn't have enough finance currently available in the Welsh game to improve the region/s. In this scenario surely it is commercially more viable that the WRU allows its star players to play overseas regardless of number of caps. This would mean that the regions do not have to bear the costs of these players and can devote their limited funds to developing the stars of the future. 

Of course that means that we will become a breeding ground for the French/English leagues but if we are really being honest that is what we really are now as evidenced by the total shambles that has been Project Reset. The silence from Phillips & Davies of the WRU since the events of last week has been a very true reflection of the state of rugby in Wales. Nobody is in charge and nobody really has a plan. 
 
The reason the Welsh team has been so successful, relatively, in the last decade is because the vast majority of players have been in Wales and under the control of Gatland and the WRU. It's a huge advantage, which you can also see from the performance of Ireland over this period.
 
Conversely, look at the appalling state of the French national team over the same period. A big factor in that is the French coaches having nowhere near the same advantages with their players as the Welsh and Irish do.
 
As soon as we surrender the core of our national squad to France or England, results will suffer big time and the impact of a poor national side will harm rugby in Wales at every level eventually.

keeping the majority together has been a huge advantage for gats thats for sure
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:11pm
England do ok due to the fact that they have a pool of players spread across 12 teams. Whilst there are a lot of non English qualified players in the league, the fact that they have 12 teams means that there’s ample opportunities for English qualified players to get game time. The young players coming through the system also get a chance to learn from quality overseas players who are scattered throughout the teams (marquee players).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:41pm
england have got more pro players than the rest of the top nations put together
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 9:45am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

england have got more pro players than the rest of the top nations put together

What about France. The top 14 plus most of the pro 2 are professionals. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

england have got more pro players than the rest of the top nations put together

What about France. The top 14 plus most of the pro 2 are professionals. 

england have way more...they also have way more registered rugby players than the rest of the top 10 put together around 2.2 million...thats about 25% of all players in the world
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

england have got more pro players than the rest of the top nations put together

What about France. The top 14 plus most of the pro 2 are professionals. 

england have way more...they also have way more registered rugby players than the rest of the top 10 put together around 2.2 million...thats about 25% of all players in the world

I can't really see the logic of that comment. England have 12 fully pro teams in the premiership; France have 14. Only some of the 2nd division players in both countries are full time pros so how you get to the statement that England have way more professionals than France confuses me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 2:39pm
scrap the 60 cap rule.
to play for wales, play in wales.
 
for players such as Jonah holmes for instance, open the door for them but not all the way. Invite them to a training camp etc...but bottom line, but they must play for a region to play for wales. no loop holes, no bullpoo, just a clear line where everyone knows where they stand. A choice will then have to be made to stay in wales in a quest for international honours, or leave for a financial reward.
 
don't get why we cant do it personally. we may lose a few players for 2 years where we will then see a lot return in time for World Cup. similar to New Zealand. Dan Carter, Ma Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams etc. all left for lucrative deals only to return for a world cup.
 
that's my opinion.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 10:44am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

england have got more pro players than the rest of the top nations put together

What about France. The top 14 plus most of the pro 2 are professionals. 

england have way more...they also have way more registered rugby players than the rest of the top 10 put together around 2.2 million...thats about 25% of all players in the world

I can't really see the logic of that comment. England have 12 fully pro teams in the premiership; France have 14. Only some of the 2nd division players in both countries are full time pros so how you get to the statement that England have way more professionals than France confuses me. 
 
isn't the English championship full time as well? plus they seem to have less overseas players in the prem than the top 14
 
 
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