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And so onto England

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Why View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2020 at 10:35pm
Get under the skin of the bastards Upfront and let rip with Hardy Sheedy Zammit Johnny North Adams and Liam nothing to lose would rather lose by 40 points than die wondering. 

She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2020 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Get under the skin of the bastards Upfront and let rip with Hardy Sheedy Zammit Johnny North Adams and Liam nothing to lose would rather lose by 40 points than die wondering. 

England are a class , on form ,act and I suspect that their pack will dominate and create a platform for a comfy win. I ask not sure our backs will get much decent ball at all but obviously I hope that Iā€™m totally wrong! šŸ™
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2020 at 11:34pm
It's correct to point out the deficiencies at forward,and it would be foolish not to acknowledge any weakness.With this in mind,I think it all the more important to select a set of backs capable of maximising limited possession.Logic dictates that if you struggle up front,you must attack from deep,off turn-over ball,etc.You need to pick pace.Less ball,more speed,I say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

It's correct to point out the deficiencies at forward,and it would be foolish not to acknowledge any weakness.With this in mind,I think it all the more important to select a set of backs capable of maximising limited possession.Logic dictates that if you struggle up front,you must attack from deep,off turn-over ball,etc.You need to pick pace.Less ball,more speed,I say.

Spot on. We need players in the back 3 capable under the high ball who will look to counter attack with pace & no fear. Johnny, Hardy, Sheedy, LRZ have no baggage - they also have that great ingredient pace. Add in Adams & Liam and give them a go with a licence to attack. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 10:23am
I've a funny feeling that Eddie will go for a 6-2 split on the bench & bring a whole new front 5 on after 55-60 minutes which our replacement front 4 (plus AWJ) won't be able to live with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I've a funny feeling that Eddie will go for a 6-2 split on the bench & bring a whole new front 5 on after 55-60 minutes which our replacement front 4 (plus AWJ) won't be able to live with.

One things for sure he won't be taking off Itoje. I wonder if Wyn, Ryan & Samson can take their front row to the cleaners like South Africa did. Now that would be something to talk about especially if Jake is in the row. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:39am
As far as 2nd row is concerned,I think the question should be 'who's going to partner Ball?',not 'Who's going to partner AWJ?'.Because nobody has been asking that first question,it's become very difficult to answer.Continuing talk of 'legend','talisman',etc serves only to obscure the problem,and doesn't hide the obvious decline on the field.I fully expect the English to take a few liberties with the captain,as they-and others-have already done in the last few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:41am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I've a funny feeling that Eddie will go for a 6-2 split on the bench & bring a whole new front 5 on after 55-60 minutes which our replacement front 4 (plus AWJ) won't be able to live with.

One things for sure he won't be taking off Itoje. I wonder if Wyn, Ryan & Samson can take their front row to the cleaners like South Africa did. Now that would be something to talk about especially if Jake is in the row. 

For me, Wyn Jones & Jake Ball are the first 2 names on the team sheet. Ball offers the real grunt & his clearing out at the breakdown cannot be under-estimated. Samson seems to be really getting back somewhere near his best too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:42am
Ive never seen the English front 5 take such a pasting as they did in that world cup final
 
I know the bok pack was huge but that was still a shock to me
 
Our first choice front 5 (especially when ken is there)  is pretty solid in the scrum , it's the subs that see a drop off
 
Although Lee and Francis both are usually solid tight heads and both should be able to handle mako and I would expect wyn to be able to handle synkler / genge
 
Where do I worry for us is being able to shift the likes of  mako billy v , itoje, underhill curry  etc at the breakdown, these are big big men who are all physically powerful and are all handy in that department
 
Allied to their rock solid  defence wales will have to go around rather than through these guys
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:44am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Ive never seen the English front 5 take such a pasting as they did in that world cup final
 
I know the bok pack was huge but that was still a shock to me
 
Our first choice front 5 (especially when ken is there)  is pretty solid in the scrum , it's the subs that see a drop off
 
Although Lee and Francis both are usually solid tight heads and both should be able to handle mako and I would expect wyn to be able to handle synkler / genge
 
Where do I worry for us is being able to shift the likes of  mako billy v , itoje, underhill curry  etc at the breakdown, these are big big men who are all physically powerful and are all handy in that department
 
Allied to their rock solid  defence wales will have to go around rather than through these guys
 
 
Apart from when Wales stuffed them in 2013
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:45am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Ive never seen the English front 5 take such a pasting as they did in that world cup final
 
I know the bok pack was huge but that was still a shock to me
 
Our first choice front 5 (especially when ken is there)  is pretty solid in the scrum , it's the subs that see a drop off
 
Although Lee and Francis both are usually solid tight heads and both should be able to handle mako and I would expect wyn to be able to handle synkler / genge
 
Where do I worry for us is being able to shift the likes of  mako billy v , itoje, underhill curry  etc at the breakdown, these are big big men who are all physically powerful and are all handy in that department
 
Allied to their rock solid  defence wales will have to go around rather than through these guys
 
 

I'd never realised that hookers actually contribute to scrummaging until one day when I was playing TH against a team. We were a vastly smaller pack than the opposition but we were holding strong in the scrum. Our hooker got changed at the 50 minute mark, or there abouts, & the first scrum afterwards we got stuffed!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:47am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Ive never seen the English front 5 take such a pasting as they did in that world cup final
 
I know the bok pack was huge but that was still a shock to me
 
Our first choice front 5 (especially when ken is there)  is pretty solid in the scrum , it's the subs that see a drop off
 
Although Lee and Francis both are usually solid tight heads and both should be able to handle mako and I would expect wyn to be able to handle synkler / genge
 
Where do I worry for us is being able to shift the likes of  mako billy v , itoje, underhill curry  etc at the breakdown, these are big big men who are all physically powerful and are all handy in that department
 
Allied to their rock solid  defence wales will have to go around rather than through these guys
 
 

All the more reason to select pace where available & play with freedom and intent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

As far as 2nd row is concerned,I think the question should be 'who's going to partner Ball?',not 'Who's going to partner AWJ?'.Because nobody has been asking that first question,it's become very difficult to answer.Continuing talk of 'legend','talisman',etc serves only to obscure the problem,and doesn't hide the obvious decline on the field.I fully expect the English to take a few liberties with the captain,as they-and others-have already done in the last few years.
 
The issue with ball , is a ) staying fit b) he isn't really a line out option
 
So when you partner him with AWJ neither man is especially good in the line out so they are not really a good pairing
 
AWJ has been brilliant up to the end of the last world cup, however as you point out his performances are slipping (if that is down to him getting older and past it  or the coaching set up I don't know as there are several proven players suffering the same dip in form)
 
I think after this game it maybe time to try something new, ball and beard (who is a line out option) would be my pick or maybe give hill a go with ball but he is a bit lightweight
 
AWJ  a legend but even legends fade with time and  I think hell pack it in after the lions tour anyhow (and gats may well not even pick him)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 11:51am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Ive never seen the English front 5 take such a pasting as they did in that world cup final
 
I know the bok pack was huge but that was still a shock to me
 
Our first choice front 5 (especially when ken is there)  is pretty solid in the scrum , it's the subs that see a drop off
 
Although Lee and Francis both are usually solid tight heads and both should be able to handle mako and I would expect wyn to be able to handle synkler / genge
 
Where do I worry for us is being able to shift the likes of  mako billy v , itoje, underhill curry  etc at the breakdown, these are big big men who are all physically powerful and are all handy in that department
 
Allied to their rock solid  defence wales will have to go around rather than through these guys
 
 
Apart from when Wales stuffed them in 2013
 
 
Yes granted adam and gethin did muller their scrum that day, but I can't recall us mashing them in mauls and picking off their lines outs like that world cup
 
Then again I think I  was too shocked too take in what was going on that day!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

As far as 2nd row is concerned,I think the question should be 'who's going to partner Ball?',not 'Who's going to partner AWJ?'.Because nobody has been asking that first question,it's become very difficult to answer.Continuing talk of 'legend','talisman',etc serves only to obscure the problem,and doesn't hide the obvious decline on the field.I fully expect the English to take a few liberties with the captain,as they-and others-have already done in the last few years.
 
The issue with ball , is a ) staying fit b) he isn't really a line out option
 
So when you partner him with AWJ neither man is especially good in the line out so they are not really a good pairing
 
AWJ has been brilliant up to the end of the last world cup, however as you point out his performances are slipping (if that is down to him getting older and past it  or the coaching set up I don't know as there are several proven players suffering the same dip in form)
 
I think after this game it maybe time to try something new, ball and beard (who is a line out option) would be my pick or maybe give hill a go with ball but he is a bit lightweight
 
AWJ  a legend but even legends fade with time and  I think hell pack it in after the lions tour anyhow (and gats may well not even pick him)

You're absolutely right re.Ball,and you've hit the nail on the head with the lineout.I like Hill,good line-out option and very industrious,but ,yes,light .As you say,difficult to compete with the bigger packs in terms of ruck and maul.The solution is the same as it's always been-get a good set-piece,where technique can achieve dominance or at least parity,and look to play a fast game.Llanelli and Wales have done that well over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 8:53pm
wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.
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