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And so onto England

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 9:42pm
It’s the front row replacements I’m worried about. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2020 at 10:57pm
Wales Online reporting Lloyd Williams and Biggar look set to start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 6:00am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Wales Online reporting Lloyd Williams and Biggar look set to start.
i posted the team above.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 6:25am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Back row is far too light. 


Edited by Fscarlet - 26 November 2020 at 6:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 6:41am
Team seems to have 'evolved now to be :-

Wyn, Elias, Samson
Ball, AWJ
Shane LH, Taulupe, Botham

Lloyd, Biggar, Jonny W, Tompkins, Adama, Rees-Zammett and Sanjay

If this is true then I commend the strategy of investing in some youth/talent, but at the same time wonder why that's not the defining selection criteria for the team. At the end of the day Wales need to move on, this is just one game.

The tough thing for any coach is to transition a team on the back of a poor run of results ( Georgia doesn't change that comment).

Within that comment, the error that I can see is that Pivac invested in the old guard and some of his own calls in the earlier games, guys like Cubby, Webb, Cawdor, Foxy, Hpenny and then tried (and it didn't seem to quite come off, at least to his own expectations) guys like Rowlands, Tompkins at 12, Watkin at 12, Carre, Wainwright at 8, Sheedy, Hardy etc...but hasn't stuck with them.

So now he has a hybrid team where he feels obliged to play guys that haven't really shone, guys like Biggar, Tompkins, Sanjay and Elias, and make some odd calls like starting Lloyd, when he has 3 fit SH's, one's that he originally selected.

Pretty sure, but for injury, he would have picked McNichol for Zammett, and Navidi and Tips for the 2 flankers...but those guys are all over 30.


I do think he knows he has to move on, but seems to lack conviction with who and when.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 7:52am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Back row is far too light. 

If that is the team then its the biggest back row we could select apart from picking someone out of position. Botham is as big as Tipuric; Faletau is bigger than Moriarty, Navidi & Wainwright & Lewis-Hughes at touching 18 stone is bigger than all challengers for no 6 so the back row isn't light & will compete ( weight wise) with Englands even allowing for big Billy. 

Selecting Lloyd Williams, Biggar, Webb & North is pretty nonsensical but utterly predictable. Cawdor and Hardy must be wondering what the hell Pivac is doing as indeed many of us on the forum are. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:15am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Back row is far too light. 

If that is the team then its the biggest back row we could select apart from picking someone out of position. Botham is as big as Tipuric; Faletau is bigger than Moriarty, Navidi & Wainwright & Lewis-Hughes at touching 18 stone is bigger than all challengers for no 6 so the back row isn't light & will compete ( weight wise) with Englands even allowing for big Billy. 

Selecting Lloyd Williams, Biggar, Webb & North is pretty nonsensical but utterly predictable. Cawdor and Hardy must be wondering what the hell Pivac is doing as indeed many of us on the forum are. 

I would have started with Lloyd & had Hardy on the bench. I alluded a few posts ago to the fact that Sheedy should start but I thought he would have Biggar starting & North on the bench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:25am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Sorry ladram,not sure how I missed that.
Losing interest now.Who coached Japan in the world cup?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:28am
Can someone please explain to me what Lloyd williams is doing anywhere near this welsh squad?
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:30am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Back row is far too light. 

If that is the team then its the biggest back row we could select apart from picking someone out of position. Botham is as big as Tipuric; Faletau is bigger than Moriarty, Navidi & Wainwright & Lewis-Hughes at touching 18 stone is bigger than all challengers for no 6 so the back row isn't light & will compete ( weight wise) with Englands even allowing for big Billy. 

Selecting Lloyd Williams, Biggar, Webb & North is pretty nonsensical but utterly predictable. Cawdor and Hardy must be wondering what the hell Pivac is doing as indeed many of us on the forum are. 

I would have started with Lloyd & had Hardy on the bench. I alluded a few posts ago to the fact that Sheedy should start but I thought he would have Biggar starting & North on the bench.

You certainly did Fscarlet. Lets face it his options at 10 are severely limited as he only has 2 in the squad. Sheedy will probably only see action if the game is already gone. If, unexpectedly, Wales are within touching distance at 50/60 minutes I cannot see him changing Biggar. If we are out of it losing by 20/25 points then we will see Sheedy but what will that tell us? 

At 9 he has his original selections all fit yet he opts for someone outside his original selections. What does that tell us. That somehow Lloyd has raised his game enormously this season?? I think not - it tells us that in many positions Pivac hasn't really got a clue or plan of what he is doing. Webb who was shocking when he came on last week is rewarded for that performance with a place in the 23. 

There is a strong theme running through Pivac's Welsh teams at the moment - disorganisation. If the coach doesn't know what he is doing how can the players expect to? At the moment our level is challenging Italy for 5th/6th spot in Europe as we were in the 6 nations. How much longer the basket cases running Welsh rugby will allow us to be 5th in Europe without changing things remains to be seen. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:32am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Sorry ladram,not sure how I missed that.
Losing interest now.Who coached Japan in the world cup?

Joseph. I am with you Dic - I am losing interest almost as quickly as Pivac is losing the plot!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:37am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

wyn,ryan,samson,awj,jake,botham,shane l j,toby,
lloyd williams,biggar,jonny,tomkins,josh zammitt sanjay-rhys carre,elliot dee,francis,wainwright,webb,sheedy,gerge north,
 god help us.

Sorry ladram,not sure how I missed that.
Losing interest now.Who coached Japan in the world cup?

Joseph. I am with you Dic - I am losing interest almost as quickly as Pivac is losing the plot!!!!!

I agree, I have never been less interested in a Wales v England match in my life....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 8:56am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Can someone please explain to me what Lloyd williams is doing anywhere near this welsh squad?
Because he was outstanding off the bench in Dublin and out of the four scrum-halves in the squad he’s been the best performing. He’s efficient with the fastest and most accurate service.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 9:23am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Can someone please explain to me what Lloyd williams is doing anywhere near this welsh squad?
Because he was outstanding off the bench in Dublin and out of the four scrum-halves in the squad he’s been the best performing. He’s efficient with the fastest and most accurate service.

All attributes he possessed before being called into the squad. I do realise that Pivac only had 12 months before he started the job to get round all 4 regions to see players so clearly the attributes of some were missed in his mad dash to all points of the country. Absolute and utter b......s. 

Before I am labelled anti Lloyd let me get one thing clear - in my opinion he is the best 9 at the Blues by a long way as I have never quite understood the clamour for Tomas who has skill no doubt but his failings are huge as witnessed in this years 6 nations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 9:24am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Can someone please explain to me what Lloyd williams is doing anywhere near this welsh squad?
Because he was outstanding off the bench in Dublin and out of the four scrum-halves in the squad he’s been the best performing. He’s efficient with the fastest and most accurate service.
 
hardy has a better pass than Lloyd doesn't he?
 
Not sure how a 20 minute cameo has promoted him from not being in the squad to a starting 9 and he is hardly one for the future , he has been tried and been found wanting at test level all very odd *granted our other 9's are not in great form)
.
This is just another example of pivac's muddled selection policy, 4 tests 4 diff starting 9's that is not the mark of a coach  who knows his game plan or his best side.
 
Really not sure that back row will be able to cope with the size and power of the English team it maybe bigger than our normal back row, but it isn't as physical , as savvy or as good at the breakdown . For me wales is best back row for this game would be  toby f , naividi and moriarty .Our  front 5 looks more solid but ryan really has to be on the spot with his throwing in this weekend, itoje and launchbury both attack opposition ball and wales don't have many genuine line out forwards
 
That team  isn't good enough and Pivac won't be head coach much longer, simply not up to it.
 
Warburton's not committal comments about him last week said a lot to me. Lauded Jenkins as a kicking coach far more reluctant to heap praise on Pivac
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 26 November 2020 at 9:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2020 at 9:44am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Team seems to have 'evolved now to be :-

Wyn, Elias, Samson
Ball, AWJ
Shane LH, Taulupe, Botham

Lloyd, Biggar, Jonny W, Tompkins, Adama, Rees-Zammett and Sanjay

If this is true then I commend the strategy of investing in some youth/talent, but at the same time wonder why that's not the defining selection criteria for the team. At the end of the day Wales need to move on, this is just one game.

The tough thing for any coach is to transition a team on the back of a poor run of results ( Georgia doesn't change that comment).

Within that comment, the error that I can see is that Pivac invested in the old guard and some of his own calls in the earlier games, guys like Cubby, Webb, Cawdor, Foxy, Hpenny and then tried (and it didn't seem to quite come off, at least to his own expectations) guys like Rowlands, Tompkins at 12, Watkin at 12, Carre, Wainwright at 8, Sheedy, Hardy etc...but hasn't stuck with them.

So now he has a hybrid team where he feels obliged to play guys that haven't really shone, guys like Biggar, Tompkins, Sanjay and Elias, and make some odd calls like starting Lloyd, when he has 3 fit SH's, one's that he originally selected.

Pretty sure, but for injury, he would have picked McNichol for Zammett, and Navidi and Tips for the 2 flankers...but those guys are all over 30.


I do think he knows he has to move on, but seems to lack conviction with who and when.



 
 
Pivac has fallen  between two stools, he hasn't gone for the new broom approach and picked an exciting young team designed to run the ball
 
Neither has he kept the old guard who knew how to defend and grind out games
 
Neither formula would be guaranteed success but he should at least have opted for one or the other
 
This mis mash he has opted for  seems to have confused the players and isn't producing good results or good rugby
 
We look a badly coached, badly selected side who appear to have no cohesive game plan or strategy.
 
Just look at the merry go round of selection we are seeing at half back, that is a classic sign pivac doesn't know his best team or his best game plan
 
 
 
 
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