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Aus v Wales thread

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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2012 at 8:13pm
Oh and if we're worrying about the minnows of world rugby then maybe uncle roger and his equals should consider playing them in friendlies now and again whilst resting a few top players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMELLYMIKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2012 at 8:15pm
Well you are perpetuating the debate....Emotion and memory are ok as long as you dont lose focus of the here and now....and the lions were a great instituation , but lets put their memory to history and concentrate on the scarlets for the future ...we dont need any other distractions that reduce our chances by removing our best players from us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2012 at 8:31pm
did beale drop the ball forward during their try?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2012 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Well you are perpetuating the debate....Emotion and memory are ok as long as you dont lose focus of the here and now....and the lions were a great instituation , but lets put their memory to history and concentrate on the scarlets for the future ...we dont need any other distractions that reduce our chances by removing our best players from us


Some people don't think it's right to put that great institution to the grave though, IMO players as well as supporters need variety and it's all about getting the balance right, the lions allows players and supporters the opportunity for something a bit different, its allows players the chance to play alongside some of the best that they may never have played with if it wasn't for the lions, it breaks up the seasons away from club, international, club, intentional, it allows the tri nations teams and clubs within their nations to play against the best of britain and it differentiates rugby from other sports.

Supporters get the chance to mingle with like minded fans they rarely get to meet, travel the world and enjoy rugby in a different way to how they usually enjoy it, its a reminder why we love the sport for me and something I hope never disappears.

I'm pretty sure every international in britain wants to go on the lions for better reasons than the p155 ups when they retire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2012 at 9:25pm
Great post Gate12.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrfwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 12:38am
Great drop attempt by Rhys at the end of the first half! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMELLYMIKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 12:48am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Well you are perpetuating the debate....Emotion and memory are ok as long as you dont lose focus of the here and now....and the lions were a great instituation , but lets put their memory to history and concentrate on the scarlets for the future ...we dont need any other distractions that reduce our chances by removing our best players from us


Some people don't think it's right to put that great institution to the grave though, IMO players as well as supporters need variety and it's all about getting the balance right, the lions allows players and supporters the opportunity for something a bit different, its allows players the chance to play alongside some of the best that they may never have played with if it wasn't for the lions, it breaks up the seasons away from club, international, club, intentional, it allows the tri nations teams and clubs within their nations to play against the best of britain and it differentiates rugby from other sports.

Supporters get the chance to mingle with like minded fans they rarely get to meet, travel the world and enjoy rugby in a different way to how they usually enjoy it, its a reminder why we love the sport for me and something I hope never disappears.

I'm pretty sure every international in britain wants to go on the lions for better reasons than the p155 ups when they retire.
Thats fine , if thats what people want , but on the flip side how can they validate all the anti wales talk.....If you can claim that wales as an institution is ruining regional rugby and then validate the lions , that just says the person is a hypocrite 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 2:54am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

 
Congratulations on shoehorning a few digs at the Scarlets into a Wales match thread although I agree the distance between us and the Aussies it wider than it looks but for different reasons to you, there's much deeper rooted problems to northern hemisphere rugby than the ones you've mentioned IMO, although some of them are partly the problem.


Well I suppose it makes a change to you lobbing in a few digs at Team Wales in various threads about the Scarlets Big smile.

Anywho, I stand by what I said. Watching Wales last week and yesterday morning, I had the same empty  feeling after the games as I have watching the Scarlets over the last couple of years; huge amounts of "could have/should have", winning good ground on a penalty only to lose the advantage by not throwing in straight at the line out, making 50-60m breaks up field only to then concede a penalty by holding on, aimlessly kicking the ball away, and poor decision making at critical times.

These are the events leading to the Aussie try, that ultimately won them the game

62mis - Halfpenny kicks penalty that puts Wales 16-12 up.

62.46 - Aussies restart and ball is caught by AWJ. The ball gets back to Priestland who, instead of kicking for touch, kicks an up and under in field. The kick is too long, is caught by Genia, who proceeds to counter attack.

63.23 - Bradley and Foxy get defence line totally wrong leaving a huge gap for Barnes to practically walk through. Aussies get in Welsh 25 but knock on.

63.48 - We have an advantage because of the knock on. So do we take the sting out of the attack, slow the game down and go for the scrum, where we have been dominant all afternoon? DO WE F**K. The ball is passed back to Halfpenny who kicks downfield. The ball misses touch and is to long to be chased. It`s caught by Barnes who (again) counter attacks.

64.48 - Barnes counter attack leads to the Aussies going through 8 phases of play before they score a try in the corner.

IMHO, those missed kicks to touch by Priestland and Halfpenny (who should never even have kicked because we should have taken the scrum) are inexcusable. This is the biggest difference for me between northern and Southern hemispheres; the lack of rugby intelligence on the field. 

Look back at the Scarlets v Munster games in April. The first 5 mins of the game when we should be holding onto possession, Priestland it away with two kicks that offer nothing except for giving them the ball (this is not an anti Priestland post but as OH he is under the spotlight). We can go back to the Brive game where we get a kickable penalty with a few minutes to go and we are a point behind, yet we decide to run the advantage and lose the ball. 

We now have some great athletes in Wales that CAN compete with the Southern Hemisphere. For the Scarlets boys who have been on the tour, I think the experience will have been hugely beneficial to their development which in turn should bring huge positives to the Scarlets next season. But unless this rugby intelligence issue is sorted out then neither side are going to reach their full potential IMO.


Edited by s.pimpernel - 24 June 2012 at 2:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 3:10am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by the ezmanoid the ezmanoid wrote:

Didn't help some players look shattered after a long season with world cup and the emotion of it being taken away a huge 6 nations there were at least 10 of those players who could have done with having an operation the day the season ended an putting their feet up for the rest I the summer but every player wants to play for Wales so you can't fault the commitment.



Fair point the commentator mentioned the Aussies will be having a two month break before their next game. Can you imagine the WRU discovering that they havent got another little pension game lined up for their willing shire and racing horses......unthinkable.


Wales Schedule 2012

Start of 6 Nations - 05/02/12

End of 6 Nations - 17/03/12

11 week break

Start of Summer tour (& Babas game) - 02/06/12

End of Summer tour - 23/06/12

19 week break

Start of Autumn Internationals - 10/11/12

End of Autumn Internationals - 01/12/12

8 week break

Start of 6 Nations 2013 - 02/02/13

Aussie Schedule

Start of Summer Internationals - 05/06/12

End of Summer Internationals - 23/06/12

8 week break

Start of Rugby Championship - 18/08/12

End of Rugby Championship - 06/10/12

2 week break

Bledisloe Cup game against Kiwis 20/10/12

4 week break

Start of Autumn Tour - 17/11/12

End of Autumn Tour - 01/12/12

Wales Internationals - 12 (not including games v BaBas and Brumbies)

Aussie Internationals - 14


Edited by s.pimpernel - 24 June 2012 at 3:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 10:25am
Team Wales has gone from giving many teams a head start, then playing glorious stuff only to end up gallant losers.
Now, we've moved on. We can beat anyone and tend not to give them a head start, 1st Aussies test excepted perhaps.
The team are used to being able to match anyone and that has happened due to a change in mental strength.
We now need another move on the thinking side of things, to close out the matches & take right options as the clock ticks down.
The players will have felt emotional troughs that they will not want to revisit. I hope they use it as a spur to make that next step up to beat those SH teams.
That and a bit of work on the error rate & ill discipline.........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 10:46am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Team Wales has gone from giving many teams a head start, then playing glorious stuff only to end up gallant losers.
Now, we've moved on. We can beat anyone and tend not to give them a head start, 1st Aussies test excepted perhaps.
The team are used to being able to match anyone and that has happened due to a change in mental strength.
We now need another move on the thinking side of things, to close out the matches & take right options as the clock ticks down.
The players will have felt emotional troughs that they will not want to revisit. I hope they use it as a spur to make that next step up to beat those SH teams.
That and a bit of work on the error rate & ill discipline.........
there's a huge difference between matching people and beating them,people will look back in 20 years time and see a 3-0 whitewash not if's buts and maybe's .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SMELLYMIKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 10:53am
GOT TO DISSAGREE.....Ithink prople forget how far welsh rugby had fallen prior to regionalism....gatland has now taken the welsh side to a level i never thought was cpossible.....you forget that the aussies are tri nation champions....they dont sit still either.....so yes it says 3-0 in wins ..but people then need to read more about the facts of the game ..and lets not forget the influence of a homer reffing the game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 10:59am
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Well you are perpetuating the debate....Emotion and memory are ok as long as you dont lose focus of the here and now....and the lions were a great instituation , but lets put their memory to history and concentrate on the scarlets for the future ...we dont need any other distractions that reduce our chances by removing our best players from us


Some people don't think it's right to put that great institution to the grave though, IMO players as well as supporters need variety and it's all about getting the balance right, the lions allows players and supporters the opportunity for something a bit different, its allows players the chance to play alongside some of the best that they may never have played with if it wasn't for the lions, it breaks up the seasons away from club, international, club, intentional, it allows the tri nations teams and clubs within their nations to play against the best of britain and it differentiates rugby from other sports.

Supporters get the chance to mingle with like minded fans they rarely get to meet, travel the world and enjoy rugby in a different way to how they usually enjoy it, its a reminder why we love the sport for me and something I hope never disappears.

I'm pretty sure every international in britain wants to go on the lions for better reasons than the p155 ups when they retire.
Thats fine , if thats what people want , but on the flip side how can they validate all the anti wales talk.....If you can claim that wales as an institution is ruining regional rugby and then validate the lions , that just says the person is a hypocrite 
 
Quite easy to justify really and not hypocritical at all, the Lions tour is once every four years and in the summer (when Wales would tour anyway) and is a fixture full of history, meaning and means a huge amount to the players, there's a big difference between that and cramming in fixtures a week before some of the biggest games of the regions seasons and pulling out players of regional rugby weeks before internationals so they miss league fixtures, realistically teams will miss between a grand total of about 0-5 players for a Lions tour whereas they'll miss around 7-10 players for a Welsh fixtures which also clash with u20's, 7's etc. There's also the element of playing players through injuries, a WC and 6 nations I can accept as long as the long term damage isn't significant but for autumn internationals and summer tours it's taking the p1ss.
 
Comparisons between the impact of a Lions tour on us or any other region compared to the demands of the team Wales is pretty ridiculous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 11:02am
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

 
Congratulations on shoehorning a few digs at the Scarlets into a Wales match thread although I agree the distance between us and the Aussies it wider than it looks but for different reasons to you, there's much deeper rooted problems to northern hemisphere rugby than the ones you've mentioned IMO, although some of them are partly the problem.


Well I suppose it makes a change to you lobbing in a few digs at Team Wales in various threads about the Scarlets Big smile.
 
Doesn't make a change at all, we both do it regularly Big smile
 
Regarding the rest of it I sort of agree, teams will always make mistakes but they need to recover from them, I've seen Leinster make loads of mistakes in big games but after a mistake they'll reset, organise themselves and rectify that mistake, Wales generally back it up with another mistake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 11:07am
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:


Aussie Schedule

Start of Summer Internationals - 05/06/12

End of Autumn Tour - 01/12/12

Wales Internationals - 12 (not including games v BaBas and Brumbies)

Aussie Internationals - 14
 
Point well made, I assume your point was the 6 month gap where their clubs play all of their important fixtures without international interference and have a decent rest too?
 
I think you can count the baabaa's games in the Wales count, they are capped games after all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMELLYMIKE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2012 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Well you are perpetuating the debate....Emotion and memory are ok as long as you dont lose focus of the here and now....and the lions were a great instituation , but lets put their memory to history and concentrate on the scarlets for the future ...we dont need any other distractions that reduce our chances by removing our best players from us


Some people don't think it's right to put that great institution to the grave though, IMO players as well as supporters need variety and it's all about getting the balance right, the lions allows players and supporters the opportunity for something a bit different, its allows players the chance to play alongside some of the best that they may never have played with if it wasn't for the lions, it breaks up the seasons away from club, international, club, intentional, it allows the tri nations teams and clubs within their nations to play against the best of britain and it differentiates rugby from other sports.

Supporters get the chance to mingle with like minded fans they rarely get to meet, travel the world and enjoy rugby in a different way to how they usually enjoy it, its a reminder why we love the sport for me and something I hope never disappears.

I'm pretty sure every international in britain wants to go on the lions for better reasons than the p155 ups when they retire.
Thats fine , if thats what people want , but on the flip side how can they validate all the anti wales talk.....If you can claim that wales as an institution is ruining regional rugby and then validate the lions , that just says the person is a hypocrite 
 
Quite easy to justify really and not hypocritical at all, the Lions tour is once every four years and in the summer (when Wales would tour anyway) and is a fixture full of history, meaning and means a huge amount to the players, there's a big difference between that and cramming in fixtures a week before some of the biggest games of the regions seasons and pulling out players of regional rugby weeks before internationals so they miss league fixtures, realistically teams will miss between a grand total of about 0-5 players for a Lions tour whereas they'll miss around 7-10 players for a Welsh fixtures which also clash with u20's, 7's etc. There's also the element of playing players through injuries, a WC and 6 nations I can accept as long as the long term damage isn't significant but for autumn internationals and summer tours it's taking the p1ss.
 
Comparisons between the impact of a Lions tour on us or any other region compared to the demands of the team Wales is pretty ridiculous.
Well obviously wales will have a greater affect on us numbers wise...but dont you find it ironic that the people who complain on here about certain scarlets not being picked by wales , are often the same ones who complain about how our players are overplayed....Anyway perhaps we need to include another competition into the international calender...I would like to see a test series between a northern hemisphere 15 v a southern hemisphere 15....as it would enable layers and supporters getting together and enjoying each others company , just like the lions but on a far greater scale...played in the us or middle east would be ideal.......
But back to the Lions question ....still cant see the point myself , watched the last series but still cant get excited about it .....as i said yesterday , hopefully we will not have any players involved ...a nice summer off and a good preseason for the guys ...Its what the layers need and the supporters deserve
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