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BBC's "the Hour" from PYS on class

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Ffidel Bennett View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 January 2018 at 5:25pm
Just been watching the recording of last night's program which was quite informative despite the young woman "chairing" cutting off some speakers making important points and interruptions making others inaudible - but that's bound to happen in any heated debate.

Edited by Ffidel Bennett - 30 January 2018 at 5:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2018 at 9:40pm
Thought it was a load opinionated tosh to be honest. No idea what the point of it was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2018 at 11:22pm
Did they really have a tv show just to discuss this one incredibly tedious topic?
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2018 at 11:21pm
Don't you think that the rapidly increasing gap between rich and poor, and the advantages that this brings to a small number is one of the most important topics of our time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 9:50am
This topic is surely at the root of everything that is wrong with our society. How can it be right that you can become President of the USA because of your financial resources? How can be it be right that 80% of the World's wealth/assets is owned by less than 5% of the population. 

The total injustice felt by 95% of the population is a powder keg which, if ignited, could change our World forever. Clearly not a subject worth airing!!!!Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Don't you think that the rapidly increasing gap between rich and poor, and the advantages that this brings to a small number is one of the most important topics of our time?

Yes of course but thats money not class. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 11:18am
Money very rapidly translates to class. How many of the new rich don't send their children to private schools to give them the chance to lose, their accents and settle in with their new "class" mates. The rich don't mix with the working class if they can help it and usually end up politically campaigning to preserve their new class advantages not for the advancement or even social mobility of their original  class.
The old line, sung to the tune of the "Red Flag", is as relevant as ever -
"The working class can kiss my arse - I've joined the bosses class at last"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Money very rapidly translates to class. How many of the new rich don't send their children to private schools to give them the chance to lose, their accents and settle in with their new "class" mates. The rich don't mix with the working class if they can help it and usually end up politically campaigning to preserve their new class advantages not for the advancement or even social mobility of their original  class.
The old line, sung to the tune of the "Red Flag", is as relevant as ever -
"The working class can kiss my arse - I've joined the bosses class at last"

Not sure about that exactly, it appears to me to be a rigged monetary / globalised system that reinforces the wealth gap and sends our poorest men to fight the rich mans wars. Lets face it the elite 0.5% have sent our boys to war for centuries simply to reinforce the wealth structure. All behind the banner of so called patriotism. One could conclude the elite 0.5% were at war with their own people. The somme was another tragic example of this, as was Vietnam. Yet again young teenage boys sent to fight wars for the elite. Im not sure if this has really changed judging by the horrors we see in the middle east. 

I dont recognise the word class, I see wealth and power if thats what you mean. The last few governments from both parties, have all seen the wealth gap grow massively. We have 1000s more politicians yet corporations are allowed to move themselves across borders across the globe to reduce their taxes, expenses, tariffs etc to miniscule levels. Google backdated 3% and mp's celebrated? Meanwhile average joe pays 20% minimum? Too many career politicians are paid off lackeys and lobbyists for these corporations. Just look at Clinton?

Electric cars soon , yet another so called good thing that will be wholly taken over by a small number of monstrous corporations charging the earth and compulsory expenses for the masses

Take cars for the masses. like dpf's and coded parts allegedly for our security and for keeping the planet green. In reality it will hammer the poorer people financially and most if not all parts and repairs will need to be done at extortionate rates at the main dealerships, your average mechanic will become as extinct as your local greengrocer, butcher, milkman, dinosaur.

The so called drive to fight global warming and climate change seems to consist of endless stealth taxes, charges, tariffs, license etc etc But why if governments are fighting for cleaner towns and cities are they allowing town centres to collapse and move them miles away to out of town retail parks which you can only drive to? Thus more pollution. No new train tracks being laid to these places either in our £50 billion hs2 project? arent we just buying another expensive train set for the private companies to profiteer? Just a few examples. 

This is not a free market of healthy competition, its a corporate takeover. The world is being taken over by massive corporations has been for 50 years. What have we in the UK done? Well labour got rid of the monopolies commission and it morphed to something smaller and the tories then wiped it out. Who could forget the merging of the massive banks in the late 1990s? What an uber shambled 8 million customers at 1 bank and most being offered mortgages of 8 to 10 times their salary?

This is about the uber rich the elite 0.5% maintaining their mass of wealth and control. The more politicians we have it seems the worse it gets. Just to play devils advocate though, despite the endless disparity in wealth than I have outlined. There is a counter argument that the free market has allowed goods to be mass produced far cheaper and allowed the poorer people of the world access to these goods which have helped them improve their lives. There is also an argument that world poverty has fallen in recent decades. Though Im very sceptical exactly how they measure that.

But lets not despair, If the masses want to rebalance the economic wealth and raise more out of poverty we have to think very carefully about how to do that and what actually makes things better and not worse. 


Edited by roy munster - 01 February 2018 at 12:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 3:49pm
Roy, I'm with you  on almost everything here except that I think this is still a class ridden society - you don't have to look far before seeing that the corporate bosses emulate the old upper classes whenever possible and lots of them end up in the totally undemocratic House of Lords and sending their kids to Eton to learn to be like the old upper classes.
I agree also that if pushed by the old upper classes to do anything that restricted their ability to make huge profits then they would show them who the real bosses are pretty quickly. However as it stands this is unlikely to happen and it makes sense for the rich to suck up to the royal family and other medieval institutions which distract and divide working class movements  to create a fairer society. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 4:41pm
We need more lloyd george or owain glyndwr characters (minus the violence) to infiltrate these elites. As it is now they're still playing us all against each other. Divide and conquer. North V South. Public V private sector. Even the current male v female radical feminist climate is probably being orchestrated by the murdochs of this world. Yes women have one heck of a lot to complain about , especially in so called third world nations...But so to do the poorest men in society. 80 million died in the last bloodbath 1939 to 1945. I'd bet 99% of them were dirt poor with no health care no NHS, pitiful war pensions etc . The first world war before Lloyd George took over, millions of young men across europe conscripted to almost certain death, over what? Another dispute between monarchies. Say no to fight and you get the firing squad instead, some democracy...Those who survived ended up down the pits or slate quarries dying young from TB . Men and women at the lower and middle ends of society should be united to fight the power right at the very very top. 

Change is better done democratically, through persuasion and reasoning. Changing things either from inside parliaments or campaigning or creating prosperity in poor areas etc 

 , but always taking the pacifist route like Gwynfor Evans who achieved a great deal in his remarkable life. Marches are all well and good, but it doesnt matter if its 10000 or 2 million marching sometimes, one still has to win the argument. As an addendum may I say many mega rich people have also done a great deal of good so I dont want to generalize, Im sure there are a few good people in the House ofLords, but its still undemocratic, as is the European commission, an altogether more powerful place. There are many exceptions and sometimes entrepreneurs can change society... Just look what alexander raby did for Llanelli, the Butes did for Cardiff, look Oscar Shindler, look at the life of anthony wedgewood Benn giving up all his titles and fighting for true socialism and even the worlds richest ever self made men warren buffet and bill gates, philanthropists hell bent on giving their $150 billion away.




Edited by roy munster - 01 February 2018 at 5:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 5:17pm
Not sure I'm with you on most of those you praise for good works, certainly not the Butes who became immensely rich from the appalling treatment of those producing their wealth - any civic generosity was just easily afforded PR and even that "great liberal" Lloyd George was at heart a typical imperialist outside UK borders*  Tony Benn is the only one on your list who I have any respect for.

*see
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2018 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Not sure I'm with you on most of those you praise for good works, certainly not the Butes who became immensely rich from the appalling treatment of those producing their wealth - any civic generosity was just easily afforded PR and even that "great liberal" Lloyd George was at heart a typical imperialist outside UK borders*  Tony Benn is the only onze on your list who I have any respect for.

*see
 

I'm not saying these people were all good but they weren't all bad either and they did improve some things in Many profound ways too...
LG changed the world for the better in many ways taxed the rich, gave women the vote, took over the disastrous first world war from the generals created the welfare state and national insurance contributions which in turn laid the foundations for neu bevans nhs.... Those are monolithic achievements


Heres  a list of the biggest philanthropist billionaires, well worth a read http://uk.businessinsider.com/most-generous-people-in-the-world-2015-10/#2-warren-buffett-19


Edited by roy munster - 01 February 2018 at 6:11pm
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