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supertaf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 9:45am
The big issue is the money that players can earn in Ireland where they get fancy tax breaks etc. Can't blame him but it's so disappointing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:09am
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

More than a tad p88*ed off if I`m honest. Same scenario as Ben Morgan; a player unwanted by his own system, a player who was never going to reach his potential without our involvement. We nurture him and invest time into his development and he can`t leave quick enough when the same system that ignored and rejected him, come calling.

Losing him will set us back considerably and by the looks of things, we ain`t even going to get a penny from him at the end of the season. Going forward, what are the positives in us developing players for team England/Ireland, if subsequently they don`t play for us?? 

Beirne is a valuable asset for us, and the fact we`re going to let him walk for nothing doesn`t sit well with me whatsoever.
Well what do you suggest the Scarlets do? The alternative way of looking at it is that the Scarlets have had an excellent NWQ player for 2 years for very little cost


There probably isn't a lot we can do or have cobtrol over but it still shouldn't stop people being annoyed about it. I've already said that if Beirne can continue his upward curve he will be a British Lion in 2021. Personally speaking, and it may have been wishful thinking on my part, but I would have liked to have seen another 2 years from him after this season.

Maybe we start giving non Welsh development players 5 year contracts so we do get some financial compensation if they go after 2 or 3 years.

In this instance it would have worked well. However Bernardo arrived at the same time as Beirne and he's now gone. Had we given Bernardo a 5 year stint then we'd have to pay compensation if we leave him go early.

I understand the motive behind a 5 year term but it could work against us also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:26am
Giving a 5 year contract is a huge risk, we are looking at Tadgh now how many would have thought he would be this good......not many and probably Wayne as well I would think.

Could cost the club a fortune.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:37am
They want to start offering our up and coming players long term deals. Honestly think we could make some great coin when it comes to the big boys sniffing around our players.

Edited by Sosban bach - 20 September 2017 at 10:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crj89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 10:57am
Long term deals are a silly alternative, what if there's another Rory Pitman, all the talent in the world, but for some reason or another, didn't want to know.

I player with potential, wouldn't sign a long term contract anyway I don't think, stock rises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 11:01am
5 year deals have been tried, in fact Samson had one.

But projecting the value of a player who's 19/20 in 5 years time is hard...equally a player wouldn't want to be tied down to limited earnings should he 'break through' quicker than that. Didn't really work.

Also , and in the spirit of Ben Morgan and the Premier league, any long term deal pre-supposes the player will not be lured elsewhere, and ultimately if he does then all the club can do is stand their ground for a transfer fee of sorts.

2 year deals are de rigeur now...they limit the exposure of the club to a player and his cost, and the player gets the chance to re-negotiate regularly.

The only strain is that every season about 50% od your squad is out of contract of course...pressure on the Admin of that is immense I'd imagine.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 11:39am
When talking about 5 year contracts on punts, even in those cases like Beirne where we could have hit the jackpot, I just shudder at the thought of reading Scarlet Fever when his signing was announced if it was a 5 year deal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 11:50am
There may have been a window of opportunity, in fact there must have been a window, where the club could see the guy was going to make it, but at the time he hadn't caught the eye of others...

Even then it would take a lot of foresight and a lot of balls to go in with a tangible offer of a new contract when we already had another year we could exercise, and of course there'd be no guarantee he would sign it ( although I suspect he would have to think hard..)

All ramblings and musings of course...it is what it is.

It's always a balancer to recall that for every Beirne, there's usually a Bernardo or a Will Taylor in there somewhere too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

When talking about 5 year contracts on punts, even in those cases like Beirne where we could have hit the jackpot, I just shudder at the thought of reading Scarlet Fever when his signing was announced if it was a 5 year deal. 


I don't disagree and the 5 year deal idea was just me throwing something into the pot. I don't know what the answer is and luckily it's not a huge issue as we don't take on too many non Welsh development players.

As for Beirne, he's started this season as he finished the last. Hugely important and influential player for us and it goes without saying that   I'd love for him to stay, even if it was for just one more 2 year contract.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 1:08pm
If he is off, then my overriding memory will be the try he scored in the final. Sheer determination, he had no right to score from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

If he is off, then my overriding memory will be the try he scored in the final. Sheer determination, he had no right to score from there.

Wait till you see the one he is going to score on next years final!!!!! WinkWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 1:22pm
This was a two-way punt - us on him & vice versa.

Upshot for us is that we had an outstanding player in a key position for 2 seasons for a relative song. For Tadgh, he has had made the most of his visit to the Last Chance Saloon and has the opportunity to make his next decision on his own terms - unshockingly, he'd like to represent his country, so a return to Ireland as league-conquering hero is a great result for him.

IRFU and Munster get the luck of the Irish here, aided by tax breaks and a 'play in Ireland' policy, but it wasn't for the want of trying by Scarlets - Wayne mentioned at the Crys16 'Meet the Coach' evening that he'd tried a few angles on Tadgh to extend his stay in Llanelli, but ultimately it's up to the player to follow his ambitions. If he goes, as the strong rumours suggest he will, he'll go with my thanks and respect - he'll be a force, whoever he plays for, but he may look back on his time with Scarlets as the best two years of his career.

And we all know how to pronounce 'Tadgh' now.



Edited by NobbySosban - 20 September 2017 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

If he is off, then my overriding memory will be the try he scored in the final. Sheer determination, he had no right to score from there.


Wait till you see the one he is going to score on next years final!!!!! WinkWink


Which one? The one in Dublin or the one in Bilbao?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

If he is off, then my overriding memory will be the try he scored in the final. Sheer determination, he had no right to score from there.


Wait till you see the one he is going to score on next years final!!!!! WinkWink


Which one? The one in Dublin or the one in Bilbao?

Why not both ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2017 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

5 year deals have been tried, in fact Samson had one.

But projecting the value of a player who's 19/20 in 5 years time is hard...equally a player wouldn't want to be tied down to limited earnings should he 'break through' quicker than that. Didn't really work.

Also , and in the spirit of Ben Morgan and the Premier league, any long term deal pre-supposes the player will not be lured elsewhere, and ultimately if he does then all the club can do is stand their ground for a transfer fee of sorts.

2 year deals are de rigeur now...they limit the exposure of the club to a player and his cost, and the player gets the chance to re-negotiate regularly.

The only strain is that every season about 50% od your squad is out of contract of course...pressure on the Admin of that is immense I'd imagine.

Transfer fee
It's the transfer fee side of it I think we'd benefit from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2017 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

5 year deals have been tried, in fact Samson had one.

But projecting the value of a player who's 19/20 in 5 years time is hard...equally a player wouldn't want to be tied down to limited earnings should he 'break through' quicker than that. Didn't really work.

Also , and in the spirit of Ben Morgan and the Premier league, any long term deal pre-supposes the player will not be lured elsewhere, and ultimately if he does then all the club can do is stand their ground for a transfer fee of sorts.

2 year deals are de rigeur now...they limit the exposure of the club to a player and his cost, and the player gets the chance to re-negotiate regularly.

The only strain is that every season about 50% od your squad is out of contract of course...pressure on the Admin of that is immense I'd imagine.

Transfer fee
It's the transfer fee side of it I think we'd benefit from.
Agree. If rugby is truly professional, why do we not have the same processes as football? In football it also doesn't seem to make any difference where you play for international selection for example. Lastly you would never ever sell/allow your star to a team directly competing with you. IMHO the contracts given to non-welsh players need to be longer BUT have a get out clause for the club if the player doesn't meet expectations.
Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with him leaving to further his career but we should get something for the efforts we have put in to enable him to take those chances. Munster should have to pay us something for him hence the longer contract and buy out clause.


Edited by supertaf - 21 September 2017 at 10:25am
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