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Ben Morgan

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solva View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 May 2011 at 11:25am
According to Peter Jackson in The Rugby Paper this morning 'England and Wales are locked in a duel over.....Morgan.'  He says Morgan has turned down  a place in England's Churchill Cup squad next month, asking for more time before he decides his international allegiance but England are holding more talks with him over the weekend. He adds that his father is understood to favour Ben playing for England. 
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Abbey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 11:55am
Difficult one for him. He is, after all, English and should follow his country allegiance.

Should he choose England, I wouldn't see his long term future at the Scarlets. Many will disagree but I think good performances for England would give him such financial pulling power that he could be out of our league.

Who was the last English international to regularly play outisde the English league system (apart from those in France)?
Times have changed since John Scott, Trevor Cheeseman, Tony Swift and Maurice Colclough where the strength was in the Welsh club game.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:03pm
Personally, I hope he chooses England. He's English for a start.

If he does, I still feel there is no reason while he cannot be a long-term Scarlet. While he would be the exception of players playing outside of England, there'll certainly be a degree of loyalty from him to the club that gave him the chance of pro-rugby.

I'd go as far as saying he could be our captain for next season. Smiler and Steve will be at the world cup - a hugh chance for Ben. He speaks incredibly well, is incredibly passionate on the field and you can see what winning means to him.

Give him the armband.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Personally, I hope he chooses England. He's English for a start.

If he does, I still feel there is no reason while he cannot be a long-term Scarlet. While he would be the exception of players playing outside of England, there'll certainly be a degree of loyalty from him to the club that gave him the chance of pro-rugby.

I'd go as far as saying he could be our captain for next season. Smiler and Steve will be at the world cup - a hugh chance for Ben. He speaks incredibly well, is incredibly passionate on the field and you can see what winning means to him.

Give him the armband.





My issue is that wait until the French and the English come knocking and we wouldn't be able to compete. Ben will be a world class player and Lions to boot. If he were "Welsh" we'd be able to keep him - I'd not be so sure if he plays for England.

I'd love to be wrong as I really think he'll be a superstar.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solihullscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by solva solva wrote:

He adds that his father is understood to favour Ben playing for England. 


I'd be surprised at that

Edited by solihullscarlet - 08 May 2011 at 12:34pm
#UniteAndFight against the crooked Pro12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:40pm
from bens and the scarlets point of view i believe we would benefit more from him playing for england.
 
wales only have their interests at heart and would ruin him. england are a better environment for developing proper forwards.
 
gatland will just break him the first chance he gets, plus there is the goldfish bowl of welsh rugby to face once he makes the smallest of mistakes in a welsh jersey.
 
as long as he is a committed scarlet then i`d much rather him play for england. the land of his and his fathers birth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:42pm
I'm quite surprised that the BaaBaa's haven't picked him for the game against Wales TBH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:49pm
2 things that make me wonder:-
why stay in wales when a big money deal with any number of Aviva teams was probably tabled, if you are not going to play for wales?Confused
Surely part of the contractual discussions would have been around alliegance, if he is NWQ then he takes up a quota place and while he is top class, we have to reduce these and hence that may have altered the length of contact on offer.
IMO in signing for a welsh region, he has eyes on a welsh career.
 
The only benefit may be that the RFU won't be able to take him out of a welsh region as easy as the WRU take players...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:50pm
Happy with whatever Ben decides. The main thing is that's he's a Scarlet and he's just signed a new contract.
 
Yes, he's English, but I think he has really taken Wales into his heart after being given a chance here when he was let down by the English system. The last 3 years he's spent in Wales have obviously been the making of him as a player, he's living in Llanelli and he's part of a crop of 20-24 year olds at the club that will form the spine of Team Wales in the future if he commits to Wales.
 
He seems a really nice lad, very down to earth. He's got a big decision to make, so whatever he decides, good luck to him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChrisX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:50pm
as long as ben stays with scarlets then i would be happy, he can chose wales or england but always a scarlet! come on ben!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

from bens and the scarlets point of view i believe we would benefit more from him playing for england.
 
wales only have their interests at heart and would ruin him. england are a better environment for developing proper forwards.
 
gatland will just break him the first chance he gets, plus there is the goldfish bowl of welsh rugby to face once he makes the smallest of mistakes in a welsh jersey.
 
as long as he is a committed scarlet then i`d much rather him play for england. the land of his and his fathers birth.
 
In theory, yes, but if he opts for England you can bet there'll be huge pressure coming down on him in the future to move to an English club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 1:07pm
the issue ben will have is that England have stated that they WILL NOT pick any players for England after the World Cup, so he then needs to make a decision on where he wants to ply his trade...

if he chooses England then he might get to the world cup and then into international obscurity or leave the scarlets.

or

choose Wales and stay with the scarlets...
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

from bens and the scarlets point of view i believe we would benefit more from him playing for england.
 
wales only have their interests at heart and would ruin him. england are a better environment for developing proper forwards.
 
gatland will just break him the first chance he gets, plus there is the goldfish bowl of welsh rugby to face once he makes the smallest of mistakes in a welsh jersey.
 
as long as he is a committed scarlet then i`d much rather him play for england. the land of his and his fathers birth.
 
In theory, yes, but if he opts for England you can bet there'll be huge pressure coming down on him in the future to move to an English club.

he WILL have to move to England to continue being an International if he chooses England.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 1:11pm
It's not that black or white, Sal. There is an 'exceptional circumstances' clause in Johnson's policy and it was created in the first place because of the practical problems with English players going to France. Ben's closer to Twickenham here than some of the players based at Northern Aviva clubs. Martin Johnson would still pick Ben if he stayed in Llanelli his whole career IMO, but if he does opt for England he will have pressure put on him to move in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 1:14pm
Mooney should have a chat with him. Wink

Bit of an odd decision because it's more than just nationality and what you feel you are because it will affect his career, depending upon his decision. All I hope is that he doesn't feel pressured by anyone else into his decision and that he feels it's the right choice for him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotty gibbs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2011 at 1:55pm
There is no doubt that he would have a far more prominent and successful career as a Welsh international. There is far more competition for places in England, including many foreign imports and they change their mind on players more often than they change their socks. As far as I'm concerned, Ben chose to make his stake for pro rugby in Wales, and this should count for a lot.
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