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BlackwoodScarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2018 at 10:53am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Have a think about this - the UK, one of the world’s superpowers, a first world country operating under a democracy, and a country that in 2015 was one of the world’s 5 biggest economies, is stockpiling food in case of a no deal Brexit..

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/dominic-raab-brexit-food-marr_uk_5b5450a0e4b0de86f48dd3ff

This is the result of a referendum won by a 2% swing, from a campaign based on lies on both sides, where at least one side (possibly both) has broken the law.

The result was advisory, not legally binding. It meant “We would like to..” not “we must”.

Two years later, David Cameron, George Osborne, David Davis, Boris Johnson have all left. No one has a clue what to do!

Can anyone put a positive spin on this?


You are totally correct to point out the pretty amateur attempts at negotiations by the British Government to date. You are, however, incorrect to suggest that the result of the referendum should/could be ignored. For all her failings, which in my opinion, have been many, the PM despite being a remainer at heart has heeded the democratic wishes of the British people.

I will refrain from doom & gloom until I have something concrete to study. For every negative story which you highlight I could highlight a positive - such is life.

1) I never said the result of the referendum should be ignored. It is, and shall always remain to be, a significant movement away from the status quo for British MPs, MEPs and the EU. It should not be ignored, I believe that for every one Leaver who voted for ignorant/racist/misguided reasons, there are maybe 3-4 who voted with genuine concern about the EU at heart. The EU is not perfect, not by a long way.

2) A bold claim to say that you can highlight a positive story about Brexit for every negative I can. I would say currently, the negatives outweigh the positives by about 3/4 - 1 (being generous).

3) You speak of something concrete. How concrete does it need to get? Businesses that employ thousands warning against Brexit (already happened)?
The NHS stockpiling medicine due to concerns about obtaining it? (Already happening).
The UK stockpiling food in case of no deal Brexit ? (Happening)
The head of Brexit negotiation, possibly the negotiation that has the greatest affect on Europe since Versailles, resigning because he was too incompotent (already happened).

It’s a shambles. Admit it.


You seem to confuse the wishes of the British people - Brexit with the way this government is going about achieving it. I have already agreed with you that Theresa May's negotiating stance is pretty amateur - my words; your summation - shambles I would not disagree with. However this fact does not alter my total support for the result of the referendum. You seem to mistakenly, in my opinion, associate May's performance as proof positive that Brexit was wrong. I do not agree. 

As for stockpiling drugs & food I see these as very prudent steps to take given the uncertainty surrounding whether a deal will be struck. An efficient government would have hammered out a deal by now or would have settled on no deal so everyone would be able to plan for post March 2019. I refer to waiting for something concrete as waiting for the final deal or no deal to be done. Then & only then will any of us be able to finally judge the government's performance. 

Finally you keep referring to businesses who employ thousands warning against Brexit. I have stated on many occasions that these are fair tactics from any CEO looking to bring pressure to bear on negotiations. One of the more vocal companies recently has been Airbus.As soon as May published her Chequers blueprint the CEO of Airbus came out in support - so I would be very wary of any CEO's threats regarding Brexit. 

An article from the pro EU far left Huffington post , that paper is a joke
If it bleeds we can can kill it
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SospanMawr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2018 at 11:28am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:


Easy to scoff, whats the alternative?

The way I see it the following are options
1) We carry on with the current course, and really damage ourselves as a country and likely lead to an Independence Wales (which I support). If we did so I think we’d reapply for EU membership in the next 10 years, and would likely have to give up the £ to get readmitted.

2) We hold a second referendum, not based on the deal. This is unlikely to happen and will create a lot of angst/annoyance amongst the Leave society. There’s no guarantee that the lies, cheating and racism that permeated the last referendum wouldn’t again occur.

3) We hold a people’s vote, on the specific deal offered to us, with all the information available to us. If we vote no, we can continue trying to leave the EU, hopefully with more competent negotiation and organisation. If we vote yes, we leave.

4) We ignore the result of the referendum, as it was advisory and potentially void due to the law being broken by Leave and the numerous lies on both sides. This would be disastrous for trust in the politicians of this country.

Personally I’d choose 3.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 July 2018 at 11:15am
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:


Easy to scoff, whats the alternative?

The way I see it the following are options
1) We carry on with the current course, and really damage ourselves as a country and likely lead to an Independence Wales (which I support). If we did so I think we’d reapply for EU membership in the next 10 years, and would likely have to give up the £ to get readmitted.

2) We hold a second referendum, not based on the deal. This is unlikely to happen and will create a lot of angst/annoyance amongst the Leave society. There’s no guarantee that the lies, cheating and racism that permeated the last referendum wouldn’t again occur.

3) We hold a people’s vote, on the specific deal offered to us, with all the information available to us. If we vote no, we can continue trying to leave the EU, hopefully with more competent negotiation and organisation. If we vote yes, we leave.

4) We ignore the result of the referendum, as it was advisory and potentially void due to the law being broken by Leave and the numerous lies on both sides. This would be disastrous for trust in the politicians of this country.

Personally I’d choose 3.

An emminently sensible suggestion Sospan - far too sensible for it to ever happen. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dafen Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2018 at 5:31pm
Labour party silence is a puzzler, perhaps want to wait if Johnson can make the Tories self destruct?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2018 at 11:19am
It would be good for Labour but for their own current issues with claims of antisemitism makes it hard for them to be too vocal. However, the media, maybe Guardian excluded, have run an exceptionally strong anti-Corbyn campaign the whole time and we all know what sort of power they wield in this allegedly free-thinking society. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2018 at 5:01pm
The Guardian has been just as unjustifiably anti-Corbyn as any right-wing rag. This relentless anti-Semitic nonsense is just any old bit of negative publicity which if repeated often enough will begin to register in the "brains" of the unthinking. Corbyn is the last person anyone should try to label as racist, but the right wing media along with ambitious Blairite labour mp s are so desperate to return to their "normal" anti-socialist ways that they will try anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2018 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The Guardian has been just as unjustifiably anti-Corbyn as any right-wing rag. This relentless anti-Semitic nonsense is just any old bit of negative publicity which if repeated often enough will begin to register in the "brains" of the unthinking. Corbyn is the last person anyone should try to label as racist, but the right wing media along with ambitious Blairite labour mp s are so desperate to return to their "normal" anti-socialist ways that they will try anything.
mud sticks though,fed up of hearing the word Brexit.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2018 at 9:15pm
The word racist is thrown around far too easily by all sides. Instead of actually debating theses complex matters , they nearly all choose the cheap option and label their opponents racist just to shut down any debate or even conversation. Surely to actually wrongfully label someone racist is in itself slander and should be treated as such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2018 at 9:25am
I do agree Roy, as ever the reaction and counter-reaction to that reaction then goes a bit OTT but there are so many of these at present reported by the media it has devalued the impact. The other side of the story is people with prejudice now hide behind "political correctness gone mad", "overreaction", "witch hunt" and so on to defend themselves. It was a silly joke but Boris isn't a professional comedian, despite his best efforts, and I suppose it has stirred up a bit of conversation around the issue although his personality is yet again dominating the stories (as well he knows - you always wonder about this motive with him).

One of the ironies about this is the British Asian vote is something the Tories could certainly target as it is often leaning conservative (small "c") with a strong emphasis on tradition, community, family and religion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2018 at 10:00am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The Guardian has been just as unjustifiably anti-Corbyn as any right-wing rag. This relentless anti-Semitic nonsense is just any old bit of negative publicity which if repeated often enough will begin to register in the "brains" of the unthinking. Corbyn is the last person anyone should try to label as racist, but the right wing media along with ambitious Blairite labour mp s are so desperate to return to their "normal" anti-socialist ways that they will try anything.

Whether Corbyn is or is not a racist is up for debate Ffidel; what is not up for debate is his very poor handling of the whole messy affair. At a time when the tories are there for the taking he has allowed this issue to fester along and take away any momentum his party had - in politics that is unforgivable & will probably cost him his chance at forming a government. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2018 at 3:55pm
Only the rants of Zionist supporters of the brutal Israeli regime have attacked Corbyn for being a racist or anti-Semitic, and that for being unwilling to rule out criticism of Israel for it's appalling treatment* of the  Palestinians who, unhelpfully, have always lived on land that the Israelis want to call their own.
*Since the turn of the year 167 unarmed Palestinian  demonstrators have been shot dead, and another 18,000 injured, 370 of them medics. 
The media and neo-liberal thinking labour mps, in their desperation to be rid of this aberration of a leader, wrecking their traditional ways of thinking and enrichment just repeat the name calling. There is very rarely any debate, GPR, because they know the racist accusations are absurd and actual debate would publicly show them to be so.

What I'm trying to say is being said far more clearly and elegantly here-



Edited by Ffidel Bennett - 13 August 2018 at 4:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2018 at 5:23pm
I'm not anti-Semitic but the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israeli's is downright disgusting. these people effectively live in prisoner of war camps. everything is controlled by the Israeli's, power, sewerage, food, water etc...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2018 at 4:27pm
Theres a twitter account called tory lies

It claims there the photos of corbyn at the grave were actually taken from a different grave 




Edited by roy munster - 15 August 2018 at 4:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2018 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Theres a twitter account called tory lies

It claims there the photos of corbyn at the grave were actually taken from a different grave 



they won't, Corbyn admitted that he laid the wreath... sorry but this has SERIOUSLY damaged Corbyn's reputation to the point I'm contemplating not voting for Labour at the next election. Idiotic move by Corbyn....
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2018 at 10:57pm
Even the British Brainwashing Corporation doesn't accuse Corbyn of laying a wreath at the graves of those guilty of the Munich terror. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45196409
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2018 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Theres a twitter account called tory lies

It claims there the photos of corbyn at the grave were actually taken from a different grave 



they won't, Corbyn admitted that he laid the wreath... sorry but this has SERIOUSLY damaged Corbyn's reputation to the point I'm contemplating not voting for Labour at the next election. Idiotic move by Corbyn....

Eh? He was commemorating people killed in an Israeli air strike of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. Weren't you just criticising Israel's treatment of Palestinians a moment ago?
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