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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2018 at 1:52pm
Objecting to the killing of innocent Palestinian people is not in any way anti-semitic. Corbyn & his media advisers seem unable/incapable of making this simple statement. 
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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2018 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Objecting to the killing of innocent Palestinian people is not in any way anti-semitic. Corbyn & his media advisers seem unable/incapable of making this simple statement. 

I can't actually find much evidence of this antisemitism. There are citicisms of Israel, yes, are they getting this confused with anti-Semitism? I am reading the wikipedia page on this issue and how it has been on the rise since Corbyn's leadership and this quote made me laugh:

"A Survation poll before the 2017 general election found 13% of Jews were planning to vote Labour in 2017, however, two years earlier, in the 2015 general election, 14% said they were supporting Labour when Ed Miliband was leader."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party#Interview_with_Jewish_News_and_Guardian_piece

A 1% decrease. Wow. Well, I'm convinced Corbyn's leadership has been inherently anti-Semitic now as they have numbers and everything.

Honestly, it comes across as just a load of largely unsubstantiated gossip and most of this page is quotes from various Jewish groups making accusations rather than the actual basis for those claims. I know this is just Wikipedia but the mainstream media has followed a similar pattern: the story is claims of antisemitism by suchandsuch, we interview their editor, and then interview a Labour MP to defend them and Corbyn's leadership. Whether or not the claims have basis is not addressed, which is a criminal failing of journalism in my opinion. But we see how easily people are swung by negative gossip, even on this thread.


Edited by dr_martinov - 16 August 2018 at 2:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2018 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Objecting to the killing of innocent Palestinian people is not in any way anti-semitic. Corbyn & his media advisers seem unable/incapable of making this simple statement. 

I can't actually find much evidence of this antisemitism. There are citicisms of Israel, yes, are they getting this confused with anti-Semitism? I am reading the wikipedia page on this issue and how it has been on the rise since Corbyn's leadership and this quote made me laugh:

"A Survation poll before the 2017 general election found 13% of Jews were planning to vote Labour in 2017, however, two years earlier, in the 2015 general election, 14% said they were supporting Labour when Ed Miliband was leader."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party#Interview_with_Jewish_News_and_Guardian_piece

A 1% decrease. Wow. Well, I'm convinced Corbyn's leadership has been inherently anti-Semitic now as they have numbers and everything.

Honestly, it comes across as just a load of largely unsubstantiated gossip and most of this page is quotes from various Jewish groups making accusations rather than the actual basis for those claims. I know this is just Wikipedia but the mainstream media has followed a similar pattern: the story is claims of antisemitism by suchandsuch, we interview their editor, and then interview a Labour MP to defend them and Corbyn's leadership. Whether or not the claims have basis is not addressed, which is a criminal failing of journalism in my opinion. But we see how easily people are swung by negative gossip, even on this thread.

The main downside for Corbyn of course is that he has seemed so indecisive over the issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2018 at 4:56pm
It's a non-issue. He has denied that either he or his party in general are anti-Semitic -what else can he do? Those who keep on repeating the allegations, without any evidence or reasoning, are clearly only interested in removing him as party leader as they cannot stand his politics in general. I'm afraid many of these are in the right wing Blairite rump of the Labour party, and may now be afraid of being deselected  from the comfortable Westminster club when Corbyn moves the party to the left. Of course this is exactly what the worst of the media want - a revolt to split the Labour Party when the Tories themselves are in total disarray over Brexit and a hell of a lot more.
As far as I'm concerned the quicker the Blairites are deselected the better, and the Labour Party will be a lot healthier and more attractive to the electorate when there is a clear difference between them and the "Tory Lites"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2018 at 7:31pm
[QUOTE=Ffidel Bennett]
It's a non-issue. He has denied that either he or his party in general are anti-Semitic -what else can he do? Those who keep on repeating the allegations, without any evidence or reasoning, are clearly only interested in removing him as party leader as they cannot stand his politics in general. I'm afraid many of these are in the right wing Blairite rump of the Labour party, and may now be afraid of being deselected  from the comfortable Westminster club when Corbyn moves the party to the left. Of course this is exactly what the worst of the media want - a revolt to split the Labour Party when the Tories themselves are in total disarray over Brexit and a hell of a lot more.
As far as I'm concerned the quicker the Blairites are deselected the better, and the Labour Party will be a lot healthier and more attractive to the electorate when there is a clear difference between them and the "Tory Lites"
[/QUOTE
Corbyn is now having what the left wing nuts are doing to Trump, just repeating the same things over and over again without any evidence
If it bleeds we can can kill it
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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2018 at 5:20am
Originally posted by BlackwoodScarlet BlackwoodScarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=Ffidel Bennett]
It's a non-issue. He has denied that either he or his party in general are anti-Semitic -what else can he do? Those who keep on repeating the allegations, without any evidence or reasoning, are clearly only interested in removing him as party leader as they cannot stand his politics in general. I'm afraid many of these are in the right wing Blairite rump of the Labour party, and may now be afraid of being deselected  from the comfortable Westminster club when Corbyn moves the party to the left. Of course this is exactly what the worst of the media want - a revolt to split the Labour Party when the Tories themselves are in total disarray over Brexit and a hell of a lot more.
As far as I'm concerned the quicker the Blairites are deselected the better, and the Labour Party will be a lot healthier and more attractive to the electorate when there is a clear difference between them and the "Tory Lites"
[/QUOTE
Corbyn is now having what the left wing nuts are doing to Trump, just repeating the same things over and over again without any evidence

sadly identity politics has been rife for 20 years now, where most debates are avoided simply by deflecting and diverting the discussion by accusing their opponents of discrimination. In many cases its become the last refuge of the scoundrel
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2018 at 11:08am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by BlackwoodScarlet BlackwoodScarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=Ffidel Bennett]
It's a non-issue. He has denied that either he or his party in general are anti-Semitic -what else can he do? Those who keep on repeating the allegations, without any evidence or reasoning, are clearly only interested in removing him as party leader as they cannot stand his politics in general. I'm afraid many of these are in the right wing Blairite rump of the Labour party, and may now be afraid of being deselected  from the comfortable Westminster club when Corbyn moves the party to the left. Of course this is exactly what the worst of the media want - a revolt to split the Labour Party when the Tories themselves are in total disarray over Brexit and a hell of a lot more.
As far as I'm concerned the quicker the Blairites are deselected the better, and the Labour Party will be a lot healthier and more attractive to the electorate when there is a clear difference between them and the "Tory Lites"
[/QUOTE
Corbyn is now having what the left wing nuts are doing to Trump, just repeating the same things over and over again without any evidence

sadly identity politics has been rife for 20 years now, where most debates are avoided simply by deflecting and diverting the discussion by accusing their opponents of discrimination. In many cases its become the last refuge of the scoundrel

You mean like Trump's campaigning strategy? 

This is where I have no sympathy with him. While I haven't seen much evidence of the Russia hacking thing, there is tweet after tweet and quote after quote of bullying and disgusting prejudice which he should rightly be called up on. For him to hide behind "fake news" or "media agenda" or capitalise upon people's irritation with sensationalist media reporting adds to my disgust. It's either genuine or an act, from him or a worker, and if the latter then I'd be offended if I was someone he was targeting with it. His cult of personality got him in, after all, so there is an aspect of live by the sword about this and I see the situation as different from Corbyn's and there have been official inquiries into Trump as well, which is another (fairly significant) difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2018 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by BlackwoodScarlet BlackwoodScarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=Ffidel Bennett]
It's a non-issue. He has denied that either he or his party in general are anti-Semitic -what else can he do? Those who keep on repeating the allegations, without any evidence or reasoning, are clearly only interested in removing him as party leader as they cannot stand his politics in general. I'm afraid many of these are in the right wing Blairite rump of the Labour party, and may now be afraid of being deselected  from the comfortable Westminster club when Corbyn moves the party to the left. Of course this is exactly what the worst of the media want - a revolt to split the Labour Party when the Tories themselves are in total disarray over Brexit and a hell of a lot more.
As far as I'm concerned the quicker the Blairites are deselected the better, and the Labour Party will be a lot healthier and more attractive to the electorate when there is a clear difference between them and the "Tory Lites"
[/QUOTE
Corbyn is now having what the left wing nuts are doing to Trump, just repeating the same things over and over again without any evidence

sadly identity politics has been rife for 20 years now, where most debates are avoided simply by deflecting and diverting the discussion by accusing their opponents of discrimination. In many cases its become the last refuge of the scoundrel

You mean like Trump's campaigning strategy? 

This is where I have no sympathy with him. While I haven't seen much evidence of the Russia hacking thing, there is tweet after tweet and quote after quote of bullying and disgusting prejudice which he should rightly be called up on. For him to hide behind "fake news" or "media agenda" or capitalise upon people's irritation with sensationalist media reporting adds to my disgust. It's either genuine or an act, from him or a worker, and if the latter then I'd be offended if I was someone he was targeting with it. His cult of personality got him in, after all, so there is an aspect of live by the sword about this and I see the situation as different from Corbyn's and there have been official inquiries into Trump as well, which is another (fairly significant) difference.

Trump I am afraid is no more than a corporate bully - its my ball so we play my way!!!!!It is a very sad indictment of the US political system that a man like him can in the first place be elected & secondly can conduct himself in office as he has done. 

Our system is in no way perfect but he would not have lasted long in our system even if he had miraculously been voted in in the first place. Corbyn is a totally different animal who has woken up both the Conservative & Labour party. He & McDonald have many good policies but their chances of getting into power have been damaged by their inability to deal quickly & efficiently with serious allegations. A united Labour party should now be making life very uncomfortable for a totally divided Tory party instead of defending themselves constantly. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2018 at 3:58pm
Heres a tragic example of why europe is a bigger basket case than even the americans in some ways
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45209868
How on earth are the security meant to capture all of these people with open unchecked borders across the continent

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2018 at 6:11pm
Corbyn kicking arse at the conference. Wink

No helicopters or baseball caps though. Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2018 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Corbyn kicking arse at the conference. Wink

No helicopters or baseball caps though. Unhappy
 
This guy thinks Corbyn will resist pressures to turn into another Blair and that the world has changed- hope so.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/26/time-to-wake-up-the-neoliberal-order-is-dying/


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