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Collision leads to try...

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aber-fan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Collision leads to try...
    Posted: 06 December 2016 at 2:04pm
I wonder what our resident experts thought of the incident in Ospreys v Edinburgh, where Dan Evans was waiting to field an up-and-under - the Edinburgh player following up clattered into him, and another Scot picked up the loose ball and scooted over for a try (awarded)?

The ref and assistant considered that the collision was accidental with both players focusing on the ball (as far as that goes, I agree with them) - the TV commentators were incensed, claiming that as Dan had stopped moving whereas the Edinburgh player ran into him, it should have been disallowed for obstruction.

What do the laws tell us about this situation? Who was right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 2:11pm
I am no ref but Dan was effectively tackled without the ball - penalty. If Dan had had his feet off the ground would probably been penalty & yellow card.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 2:23pm
Without knowing the laws inside out I saw no issue with it. Both challenging for the ball, eyes on the ball. No issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 2:59pm
I understand that some collisions are accidental, but if you run in a line to where the ball is going to land in opposition territory, what do you think is going to happen? Incident is here:



.



Edited by KID A - 06 December 2016 at 3:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletSpiderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 3:18pm
At the risk of being in the minority, I am not too sure what was wrong with that.  The Edinburgh winger was positioning himself to jump up for ball, as was Dan.  The winger had slightly over ran, but if he was going to jump and turn in the air so his back was towards the Ospreys line, then he was more or less in the right position.  And he has as much of a right to be there as Dan did.
 
If this had not lead to a try it would probably have been nothing other than a grumble from fans, but becasue it did lead to a try it has been blown up into a huge issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletSpiderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 3:20pm
Also looking at it again, the Ospreys winger took a line that forced the Edinburgh lad to run around him, which would possible explain the Edinburgh lad over-running the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 3:45pm
Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.


What about 'accidental offside?'

Edited by KID A - 06 December 2016 at 3:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.


What about 'accidental offside?'

Who was the ball carrier ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.



  

   I agree 100% John both players had there eyes on the ball,how the hell could'nt Holley and the pundits see that,Tandy's comments laughable .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.


What about 'accidental offside?'


Who was the ball carrier ??


? Not sure why it matters. The team in purple. Is accidental offside classed as foul play or a technical infringement?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 6:32pm
It is good to see that in the cold light of day that the weight of support is fully behind Dudley being 100% correct.

Personally, if those are the laws as they are writ, they need to be re-writ. The law in its current form has failed a common sense test. Much like the intent of the Leinster 9 to elbow, not just punch, but elbow Hadleigh in the face.

That kind of thinking needs the strongest possible deterrent/sanction. The game is about what to do with the ball, not cheap shots or attempts at violence.

I'd be interested in the thoughts from folk much more attuned in the laws and spirit of the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 7:07pm
had that been sanjay taken out this thread would be 20 pages long and calls for the offender to be banned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nikostratos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.


What about 'accidental offside?'


Who was the ball carrier ??


? Not sure why it matters. The team in purple. Is accidental offside classed as foul play or a technical infringement?


It matters because accidental offside is when the ball carrier makes contact with a team mate who is in front of them [or hands the ball to one].  No ball carrier, no accidental offside.  The only offside possible there would be if a chaser was in front of the kicker and it would be a full offside, not accidental.  http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=11.6

I think all offside is technical rather than foul play [http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=10 ], unless it is seen as intentional; very grey area IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Accidental collision, both players had eyes on the ball. No offence committed. You can only penalise foul play or technical infringements, this was neither in my opinion.

I agree 100% John both players had there eyes on the ball,how the hell could'nt Holley and the pundits see that,Tandy's comments laughable .

I agree. At the time, it was pretty clear that BOTH players had their eyes on the ball - no intent. I was interested in a 'real ref's view', in case there was some law under which the Edinburgh player could have been penalised - Scarletman makes it clear that there was no offence, so the try was good.

I did laugh, rather, at the ranting from the commentators - though as Ladram says, I'd have probably been pretty annoyed myself if I'd been in the stands and Sanjay took one like that. At least, TV allows us to review what happened in a somewhat cooler state of mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2016 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:


had that been sanjay taken out this thread would be 20 pages long and calls for the offender to be banned.

What a load of tosh we all would gave accepted it in good grace
I think it's outrageous that Dan Evans hasn't been citied for deliberately taking the Edinburgh player out of the game he was lucky it wasn't red in my view. Had it been Nige reffing it probably would have been red card Edinburgh because they were playing in red and he would have thought it was us , and a penalty try to the Ospreys with another penalty on to them the half way line to restart the game.
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