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Crys 16 Statement (Wednesday)

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Llanelliman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Llanelliman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 7:18am
I'm all for sharing PYS as suggested by other forum members. It's a win:win situation for both the Scarlets and the Ospreys. Albeit on a temporary basis. Until such time that the Gnoll in Neath can be brought up to Pro14/European specification. So that makes it a win:win:win situation, as Neath then also get a stay of execution . . . . surely ????

Edited by Llanelliman - 08 March 2019 at 7:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 7:35am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Yep, bit odd to suggest that a consultation should take place with fans and staff prior to heads of terms being agreed, lets have a consultation on something where we don't even know roughly what it'll look like, cause upset and disruption for everyone and then it may not happen or completely change.
 

Thing is I never said that. 

Granted the HOT is a non binding agreement (so the Ospreys pulling out, even in the manner they did, was well within their right), but the club and Os were meeting with the PRB next day, which I can only presume was to ratify the deal, and then it would have been all ships go.

MOFWIW, is that the probability is things would have progressed (at pace if you take the jump into Regionalisation into account) from the HOT and the merger would have happened, if the shareholders thought it was in the overall best interests of the Scarlets. The same for the Ospreys. Any post consultations with supporters would have been a PR exercise (IMO) because that deal was going ahead.

Anyway, it doesn`t matter anymore because we`ve been told its not happening.

I fly to Scotland in a few hours for a bit of R&R. Two Scarlets supporters and 6 Jacks. Should be fun LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL  


Edited by s.pimpernel - 08 March 2019 at 7:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EssexTurk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 7:38am
Originally posted by Llanelliman Llanelliman wrote:

I'm all for sharing PYS as suggested by other forum members. It's a win:win situation for both the Scarlets and the Ospreys. Albeit on a temporary basis. Until such time that the Gnoll in Neath can be brought up to Pro14/European specification. So that makes it a win:win:win situation, as Neath then also get a stay of execution . . . . surely ????


Was thinking that very same thing. Would kill 2 birds with one stone. The Gnoll is relatively more central to the region, though would require some money spent on it initially as you say. Long term, they'd have a similar situation as at the PYS, only sharing the ground with Neath, and far more reasonable match day and maintenance costs moving forward. With Llandarcy a mere 5 miles down the road, they'd reduce they're overheads long term, whilst saving Neath in the process.

Realistically though, I think there's too many Swansea RFC folk in high places at the O's who wouldn't want to move ourside of Aberjack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 7:40am
Originally posted by Llanelliman Llanelliman wrote:

I'm all for sharing PYS as suggested by other forum members. It's a win:win situation for both the Scarlets and the Ospreys. Albeit on a temporary basis. Until such time that the Gnoll in Neath can be brought up to Pro14/European specification. So that makes it a win:win:win situation, as Neath then also get a stay of execution . . . . surely ????

Do you remember where Neath RFC is? It`s in a public park. There is no way on this earth that stadium is going to get developed. 

They would be better off relocating to Bridgend or give Pontypridd the first class rugby they crave, although the same issues at Neath will be at Ponty.

The wicked side of me says they could always re-open The Vetch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 7:55am
why would anyone develop anywhere when the union are hell bent on getting rid of one of the west regions?
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Llanelliman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 8:16am
But what is the real issue ? Is it the expense that the Ospreys have of playing at the Liberty ? Again, why don't we have a 5th Region(North Wales), which allows for 'more nets to catch more fish', to provide a greater 'player base' for the National side to select from ? Coupled with what I'd suggested earlier (viz. I'm all for sharing PYS as suggested by other forum members. It's a win:win situation for both the Scarlets and the Ospreys. Albeit on a temporary basis. Until such time that the Gnoll in Neath can be brought up to Pro14/European specification. So that makes it a win:win:win situation, as Neath then also get a stay of execution . . . . surely ????). Incidentally, what has happened to St. Helens ? (St Helen's Rugby and Cricket Ground is a sports venue in Swansea, Wales, owned and operated by the City and County) of Swansea Council.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 8:22am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:


why would anyone develop anywhere when the union are hell bent on getting rid of one of the west regions?


You're believing the ospreys press releases over the one signed by everyone else then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 8:29am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Originally posted by Once a monkey Once a monkey wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Heads of Terms's (HOT's) are normally the end product of extensive negotiations and enshrine the key legal and financial contents of a deal with other points of detail to be worked through over time as often timescales are very tight for such deals to be struck (which seems the case here ). Over the years I have been involved legally in many HOT's being negotiated and I am struggling to think of cases where the HOT's didn't lead to a full deal except where both parties later felt it wasn't going to work ie HOT's are pretty much an agreement to agree! You also make sure the decision takers are in the room!

I cannot comment on what happened with this deal but the reaction of the Ospreys was pretty hysterical and almost as if their representative/s had agreed them but then someone back in the Ospreys then stepped in and spat his/her dummy when the HOT's content was known to them. I think many of us suspect internal conflict at the Ospreys.

Anyway, its finished as far as I am concerned. We need to focus on the rest of the season. I just hope the WRU will quickly agree payment splits so the Scarlets Board can sort out our players for next season and beyond which is far more important.

Thank you for what I assume is a knowledgeable post on this topic - like many (I suspect) I had never even heard of a HOT  before now...

From what we do know, it does indeed appear that this broke down as a result of disagreements at the Os... and as you say, we (Scarlets) should try to insist on clarity re funding from the WRU for next season, so that contracts can be rolled out pronto.
A couple of points to remember with Hots, which may explain why we we got nowhere:

1. HoTs are simply mechanism which evidences the serious intent of the parties. They have moral force, allegedly, but do not legally compel the parties to conclude the deal on those terms or even at all. As was the case here. However, provisions relating to confidentiality and costs may be binding on the parties, and the former may be the reason why we will never have a full answer.
2. HoTs are commonly entered into at the beginning of a transaction, once preliminary terms have been agreed and before commencement of detailed due diligence. I suspect this is the point where it went wrong, prior to the drafting of definitive agreements. Was a takeover rather than a merger the issue?

Thumbs Up  Steve . I just also wonder if the decision taker/s in the room lacked the backing of one or two other big hitters on the O's Board or the penny hadn't dropped on the HOT's until he spoke to them back at the Liberty (I suspect not and hence the dramatic resignation at the start of the meeting). I haven't known things fall apart like that tbh in such drama and conflict but then a lot of my clients were English not 'hot headed' passionate Welsh !! Wink Time to move on anyway I feel -the arranged marriage is over!
I think you are probably spot on. I suspect Rob Davies' more combative approach, as per his statement, reaffirms that. Likewise, I have never seen detailed HoTs (which these would surely have been for a deal of this nature) come apart in such spectacular fashion, or with such venom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 9:06am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:


why would anyone develop anywhere when the union are hell bent on getting rid of one of the west regions?


You're believing the ospreys press releases over the one signed by everyone else then?
no,i'm going on the fact that the blues and dragons are seemingly untouchable and the north wales pipe dream seems to be gathering momentum so somethings got to give.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr geraint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 9:24am
What makes the Dragons untouchable?

They’ve been an embarrassing joke on the pitch for years.
The union has control over them so it’s easier to take action.
They’re so close to Cardiff that anyone who can get to Dave Parade can easily get to CAP.

Have the WRU signed something daft?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 10:12am
Originally posted by mr geraint mr geraint wrote:

What makes the Dragons untouchable?

They’ve been an embarrassing joke on the pitch for years.
The union has control over them so it’s easier to take action.
They’re so close to Cardiff that anyone who can get to Dave Parade can easily get to CAP.

Have the WRU signed something daft?
I said seemingly
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 12:18pm
Dragons have been perennial under-achievers on the pitch, but they have a very effective pathway through 60+ clubs in Gwent, and their U16/U18 potential is impressive - they've just failed to translate that potential into a respectable performance as senior level.

If the regional pathway was ditched together with the pro team (they're all part of the package), that would be a lot of future talent that would likely be hoovered up by the west country English clubs. The Blues have an appalling record of developing their own pathways, so it's not an option to hand Gwent over to them in an East Wales merger.

Strategically, Dragons need to remain in place, as hard as it may be to understand from a pro level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diego6754 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Dragons have been perennial under-achievers on the pitch, but they have a very effective pathway through 60+ clubs in Gwent, and their U16/U18 potential is impressive - they've just failed to translate that potential into a respectable performance as senior level.

If the regional pathway was ditched together with the pro team (they're all part of the package), that would be a lot of future talent that would likely be hoovered up by the west country English clubs. The Blues have an appalling record of developing their own pathways, so it's not an option to hand Gwent over to them in an East Wales merger.

Strategically, Dragons need to remain in place, as hard as it may be to understand from a pro level.
 

Surely if the academy of the new entity modelled itself on the Dragons not the Blues academy then that could be sorted, surely that is just a structure and implementation thing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 12:29pm
I don’t understand how the Ospreys regional pathway being absorbed into the Scarlets would be fine, but the Gwent pathway being absorbed into the Blues would have such damaging implications for Welsh rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

I don’t understand how the Ospreys regional pathway being absorbed into the Scarlets would be fine, but the Gwent pathway being absorbed into the Blues would have such damaging implications for Welsh rugby.

because the eastern press would have a field day and be apocalyptic 
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 12:46pm
It took the Dragons Academy more than a decade to develop its first Gwent product into a senior international. The numbers of players being capped from there over the last two generations is pitiful, and age grade representation is a notoriously unreliable indicator. Find it amazing that this pathway/academy would be some sacred cow to be preserved at any cost.
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