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Dai Young - overseas policy 'wrecked' Welsh Rugby

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Mugwuffin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2015 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

dai young should know all about players making moves that are best for their careers.

he left the jacks for cardiff to push his test chances, then he left cardiff for rugby league to secure his finances then when union  turned pro he came back and now he has left welsh rugby to earn more cash in the aviva.

he can have his say on what is good or bad for the game in wales, but he has made a career out of putting himself first so why should he object to current welsh players doing the same?

He's not objecting to players doing the same. He signed Bradley Davies for Wasps.
 
Dai Young is saying that the regional game would be stronger if there was a genuine 'Gatland's Law', which would mean that players who move out of Wales would not be eligible for the national team. He thinks that would reduce the number of players leaving the regions.
 
He's right. The WRU should bring it in as soon as they've got the money to contract everyone they want to contract.

when will they have enough money to contract everyone they want to contract
Either when they've paid off the remaining stadium debt, or renegotiated the debt with the bank. Selling the  stadium naming rights for £millions, like Scotland have done with Murrayfield, would be a good move.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2015 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

dai young should know all about players making moves that are best for their careers.

he left the jacks for cardiff to push his test chances, then he left cardiff for rugby league to secure his finances then when union  turned pro he came back and now he has left welsh rugby to earn more cash in the aviva.

he can have his say on what is good or bad for the game in wales, but he has made a career out of putting himself first so why should he object to current welsh players doing the same?

He's not objecting to players doing the same. He signed Bradley Davies for Wasps.
 
Dai Young is saying that the regional game would be stronger if there was a genuine 'Gatland's Law', which would mean that players who move out of Wales would not be eligible for the national team. He thinks that would reduce the number of players leaving the regions.
 
He's right. The WRU should bring it in as soon as they've got the money to contract everyone they want to contract.

when will they have enough money to contract everyone they want to contract

Either when they've paid off the remaining stadium debt, or renegotiated the debt with the bank. Selling the  stadium naming rights for £millions, like Scotland have done with Murrayfield, would be a good move.
ive been banging on about selling the stadium name for years (the word millennium I think still has to stay too) it beggars belief that hasn't happened? otherwise realistically we are looking at 5 years to debt repayment , so are you saying wait those 5 years then enforce the compulsory gatland law
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2015 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

dai young should know all about players making moves that are best for their careers.

he left the jacks for cardiff to push his test chances, then he left cardiff for rugby league to secure his finances then when union  turned pro he came back and now he has left welsh rugby to earn more cash in the aviva.

he can have his say on what is good or bad for the game in wales, but he has made a career out of putting himself first so why should he object to current welsh players doing the same?
He's not objecting to players doing the same. He signed Bradley Davies for Wasps.
 
Dai Young is saying that the regional game would be stronger if there was a genuine 'Gatland's Law', which would mean that players who move out of Wales would not be eligible for the national team. He thinks that would reduce the number of players leaving the regions.
 
He's right. The WRU should bring it in as soon as they've got the money to contract everyone they want to contract.


the WRU don;t have the money to contract every one they want, halfpenny is earning what £600k a year, the WRU can't match the money the french clubs can pay

Neither can the tri nations sides and now 2 of those are also going to pick players who play in france


if a player can get full release and have a few years making a fortune in france , playing for top sides and challenging for domestic and european honours, what;s the problem?


if there was a genuine gatland's law players would still leave and all that would happen is the national side results would get worse


how is that helping anyone?


every top welsh  player playing in wales is the ideal scenario sadly we don;t live in an ideal world. we have to work with what we have
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2015 at 1:01am
Many players who have left or stayed outside wales have lost out on welsh caps or become forgetten men...Hook, delve, ian evans, ryan jones,matt morgan, brad davies, gill, hibbard got replaced, spikey has fallen behind, eifion Roberts never got a look in and of course the scarlet fevers number one pin up boy, gorgeous gavin henson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2015 at 1:06am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

dai young should know all about players making moves that are best for their careers.

he left the jacks for cardiff to push his test chances, then he left cardiff for rugby league to secure his finances then when union  turned pro he came back and now he has left welsh rugby to earn more cash in the aviva.

he can have his say on what is good or bad for the game in wales, but he has made a career out of putting himself first so why should he object to current welsh players doing the same?

He's not objecting to players doing the same. He signed Bradley Davies for Wasps.
 
Dai Young is saying that the regional game would be stronger if there was a genuine 'Gatland's Law', which would mean that players who move out of Wales would not be eligible for the national team. He thinks that would reduce the number of players leaving the regions.
 
He's right. The WRU should bring it in as soon as they've got the money to contract everyone they want to contract.



the WRU don;t have the money to contract every one they want, halfpenny is earning what £600k a year, the WRU can't match the money the french clubs can pay

Neither can the tri nations sides and now 2 of those are also going to pick players who play in france


if a player can get full release and have a few years making a fortune in france , playing for top sides and challenging for domestic and european honours, what;s the problem?


if there was a genuine gatland's law players would still leave and all that would happen is the national side results would get worse


how is that helping anyone?


every top welsh  player playing in wales is the ideal scenario sadly we don;t live in an ideal world. we have to work with what we have

Wales will be able to offer competitive wages when the stadium is paid off. How much money would it cost to contract all the key Wales players playing outside Wales? Hibbard, Bradley Davies, Charteris, Priestland, Roberts, Jon Davies, North, Halfpenny? £3 million or so?

That should be do-able before too long. If Roger Lewis hadn't blown it with BT we'd be able to do it now. Ireland do it despite a much bigger debt and a much smaller national stadium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2015 at 8:21am

We're already seeing the early impact of not having a firm selection policy in terms of where players play from top to bottom.

As a snapshot and starting from the top we've seen issues with player release, contract wordings, poor communication between country and club, arguments over injuries and loss of form. When Gatland continues to select some foreign based players with this 'common sense' approach then there'll be resentment for players who are being selected who are based abroad and those not being selected for various reasons.
 
The lines are clearly blurred as players leaving don't know what the impact of them leaving is, Rhys says it will probably impact him yet Roberts seems to be happily heading off to London which will cause resentment.
 
Wales as a national team are dropping off a bit because of these factors mixed in with poor regional performances, and guess what these players leaving means our regions have got and will carry on getting weaker and more players will be tempted to leave without a deterrent which will see results deteriorate further and support drop off meaning we can keep less and less players.
 
Participation then drops off, the product value drops off for TV/Sponsors and all of a sudden we're Welsh football.
 
This is a business and businesses need to take decisions to survive and thrive, at the moment Wales is a big business who don't really give a to55 about their supply chain because they're performing, it will eventually bite them on the ar5e.
 
So do we do something now or just sit back, do alright for the next few years and then gradually let it fall apart but at least we've got the glory days to look back on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2015 at 8:00am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

We're already seeing the early impact of not having a firm selection policy in terms of where players play from top to bottom.

As a snapshot and starting from the top we've seen issues with player release, contract wordings, poor communication between country and club, arguments over injuries and loss of form. When Gatland continues to select some foreign based players with this 'common sense' approach then there'll be resentment for players who are being selected who are based abroad and those not being selected for various reasons.
 
The lines are clearly blurred as players leaving don't know what the impact of them leaving is, Rhys says it will probably impact him yet Roberts seems to be happily heading off to London which will cause resentment.
 
Wales as a national team are dropping off a bit because of these factors mixed in with poor regional performances, and guess what these players leaving means our regions have got and will carry on getting weaker and more players will be tempted to leave without a deterrent which will see results deteriorate further and support drop off meaning we can keep less and less players.
 
Participation then drops off, the product value drops off for TV/Sponsors and all of a sudden we're Welsh football.
 
This is a business and businesses need to take decisions to survive and thrive, at the moment Wales is a big business who don't really give a to55 about their supply chain because they're performing, it will eventually bite them on the ar5e.
 
So do we do something now or just sit back, do alright for the next few years and then gradually let it fall apart but at least we've got the glory days to look back on?


I have some sympathy for what you say, but as I wrote before Wales don't have enough top class players to enforce a strict 'home players only' policy. We all hope (I think) that the new DCCs will enable the regions to retain more of their top players, but it will never happen that the regions will retain ALL of them.

England are the ONLY nation which -at least so far, and they have an 'exceptional circumstances' get-out clause - strictly enforces a home-players only rule. The Aussies have just ditched theirs, and the ABs have a system which allows players to re-integrate after lining their pockets abroad for a season or two.

I would prefer to see the MS debt re-scheduled over a longer period, with better funding of the regions - but Gatland and the Wales coaches have to do their best in the situation as it is - not how we'd like it to be - which means selecting players based outside Wales, if we're to win a reasonable % of our matches.

I also meant to say - there weren't many 'glory days' in the 80s or 90s, when I reckon nearly all Wales players were Wales based - or am I mistaken? Whereas in the 70s, many of the Wales players (JPR, Merv, John Taylor, John Dawes, Mike Roberts, Geoff Evans, Gerald Davies, Clive Rees, Billy Raybould) played in England - for London Welsh, admittedly!Wink


Edited by aber-fan - 26 April 2015 at 8:07am
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