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England based Welsh players.

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 January 2020 at 10:34am
Is it me or does there seem to be a very concerted effort put in since Pivac has been in charge to repatriate English based players. Liam, Costellow to us; Moore & possibly Scully to Blues. With nearly 100 players plying their trade in England its certainly a fertile hunting ground. Further serious talent of the right age is being discussed as well with Tompkins, Carre & Wainwright at Saracens, Heyes & Holmes at Tigers; Owen & LRZ at Gloucester, Young & Rowlands at Wasps; Lloyd & Thomas at Bristol, WGJ & Joe Jones at Sale. Each & every one of those mentioned would improve our regions. 

How long before we see a reaction from the Premiership clubs. Does it pay Sale to bring on Sam Moore for 3/4 years for him to leave for nothing? 
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2020 at 10:48am
Thats where the cvc cash is going. Looks like us and the blues are the wru preffered region. Luke scully to  the blues Is mooted  now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2020 at 10:52am
The rfu are hand in glove with their rich private schools poaching young welsh kids and feeding them into their clubs academy system. I hope this puts them off!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2020 at 11:54am
Pivac has gone on record to say that he and his "team" have made a strategic decision to investigate all possible Welsh qualified players. To be fair Gatland started it.

My worry is if they come back to Wales how will the regions finance it.
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2020 at 12:01pm
Gatland kind of started it but under Pivac there does seem to be more being done. He has brought in several new players from English teams, which if they want to continue their international rugby now, they have to come back to a welsh region. brilliant by Pivac IMO as it makes his pool stronger as well as regions.

Funny how today Gatland is complaining about All Blacks rest policy so can not pick his strongest side!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2020 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Gatland kind of started it but under Pivac there does seem to be more being done. He has brought in several new players from English teams, which if they want to continue their international rugby now, they have to come back to a welsh region. brilliant by Pivac IMO as it makes his pool stronger as well as regions.

Funny how today Gatland is complaining about All Blacks rest policy so can not pick his strongest side!!!!!

I had a little chuckle about that too. Now he knows how we felt all those times he kept our players just to hold tackle bags. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 10:51am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Gatland kind of started it but under Pivac there does seem to be more being done. He has brought in several new players from English teams, which if they want to continue their international rugby now, they have to come back to a welsh region. brilliant by Pivac IMO as it makes his pool stronger as well as regions.

Funny how today Gatland is complaining about All Blacks rest policy so can not pick his strongest side!!!!!

I had a little chuckle about that too. Now he knows how we felt all those times he kept our players just to hold tackle bags. 
 
too true, he is a great coach but he has a v short memory
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 10:54am
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Funny how today Gatland is complaining about All Blacks rest policy so can not pick his strongest side!!!!!


Is he really?

That has made my day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Pivac has gone on record to say that he and his "team" have made a strategic decision to investigate all possible Welsh qualified players. To be fair Gatland started it.

My worry is if they come back to Wales how will the regions finance it.
 
that's where the CVC Cash is going,
 
The WRU are clearly targeting welsh / welsh qualified players to come back to wales
 
It will improve the regions but more so the test team especially if they are in this elite 38 man group
 
There is a lot of talent in the English premiership that could really improve the regions
 
It remains to be seen if the finances are there to bring back guys like owen Williams, Thomas young, wgj, jonny williams,sheedey,dan Thomas etc
 
If they do then it will be massive for the game here
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 11:18am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Pivac has gone on record to say that he and his "team" have made a strategic decision to investigate all possible Welsh qualified players. To be fair Gatland started it.

My worry is if they come back to Wales how will the regions finance it.

 
that's where the CVC Cash is going,
 
The WRU are clearly targeting welsh / welsh qualified players to come back to wales
 
It will improve the regions but more so the test team especially if they are in this elite 38 man group
 
There is a lot of talent in the English premiership that could really improve the regions
 
It remains to be seen if the finances are there to bring back guys like owen Williams, Thomas young, wgj, jonny williams,sheedey,dan Thomas etc
 
If they do then it will be massive for the game here
 
 


If the CVC cash is going to be used by the WRU to divvy out players to the 4 welsh sides then that's one step away from being owned by the Union.

That cash was earned by the 4 welsh teams and should be given to the 4 welsh teams.

Another reason why Unions should be nowhere near domestic competitions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 11:49am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Pivac has gone on record to say that he and his "team" have made a strategic decision to investigate all possible Welsh qualified players. To be fair Gatland started it.

My worry is if they come back to Wales how will the regions finance it.

 
that's where the CVC Cash is going,
 
The WRU are clearly targeting welsh / welsh qualified players to come back to wales
 
It will improve the regions but more so the test team especially if they are in this elite 38 man group
 
There is a lot of talent in the English premiership that could really improve the regions
 
It remains to be seen if the finances are there to bring back guys like owen Williams, Thomas young, wgj, jonny williams,sheedey,dan Thomas etc
 
If they do then it will be massive for the game here
 
 


If the CVC cash is going to be used by the WRU to divvy out players to the 4 welsh sides then that's one step away from being owned by the Union.

That cash was earned by the 4 welsh teams and should be given to the 4 welsh teams.

Another reason why Unions should be nowhere near domestic competitions.
 
 
Under the terms of the PRB (maybe scarletnut can clarify) all monies generated solely by the regions should be shared solely by the regions
 
 
so how the wru can get their hands on this is beyond me
 
allied to the fact the wru will be getting their own chunk of cvc cash from the 6 nations investment then all this should be going to the regions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 11:57am
Lots of focus on CVC money but I do wonder if it will prove to be beneficial in the medium/long term. Don't know enough about their F1 involvement but unless they can generate significant increases in TV revenues which will increase their stakeholding's worth then I see no compelling reason for their involvement from their own perspective. 

Perhaps some of the petrol heads on here can shed some light on their F1 involvement. Unless there are serious plans to boost media revenues it seems pointless to sell a % of the pro 14 or 6 nations when you could get a cash boost by simply forward selling against future revenues which would not involve giving up any ownership. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lots of focus on CVC money but I do wonder if it will prove to be beneficial in the medium/long term. Don't know enough about their F1 involvement but unless they can generate significant increases in TV revenues which will increase their stakeholding's worth then I see no compelling reason for their involvement from their own perspective. 

Perhaps some of the petrol heads on here can shed some light on their F1 involvement. Unless there are serious plans to boost media revenues it seems pointless to sell a % of the pro 14 or 6 nations when you could get a cash boost by simply forward selling against future revenues which would not involve giving up any ownership. 

things that happened to F1 under CVC:
They go for the highest bidder regardless of the sport interest in that country.

Formula One Teams under Eccleston received 47% cut of TV revenue and race promoter fees. Under CVC this grew to 50% but included all the sport’s income streams.

Also, the season and its structure. 21 races instead of 19 and:
"big difference is how many races now take place far away from the team’s European bases. Non-European rounds have increased by 50% in this period, and that’s if we count distant Azerbaijan as a European race"

Things that could happen as they see rugby as an incredibly under marketed sport...which it is (just my ideas, based on nothing solid):
Rugby channel similar to the F1 channel. 

Pro14 and Premiership already in with CVC.

More involvement from South African teams as the South African market is HUGE which is something CVC like very much.

American teams: again this is a possibility...how it will work...Toronto Wolves have done ok and been welcomed in rugby league community who are always open to new things (TMO, moving the season to the summer, Thursday night kick offs, Magic Weekends, theyve done a lot of new things to try and increase numbers and interest).

and then the big one...Anglo Welsh League.
British League is not likely as the Irish dont want it. Plenty of theories on why that is!..but Anglo Welsh could be seen as ideal for CVC. Irish, Scottish, Italian and South Africans may not be happy to lose Welsh regions, but, if CVC want it, it will happen. Anglo Welsh league would also still make a european league interesting. If it became British and Irish League, then IMO it becomes a bit pointless.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lots of focus on CVC money but I do wonder if it will prove to be beneficial in the medium/long term. Don't know enough about their F1 involvement but unless they can generate significant increases in TV revenues which will increase their stakeholding's worth then I see no compelling reason for their involvement from their own perspective. 

Perhaps some of the petrol heads on here can shed some light on their F1 involvement. Unless there are serious plans to boost media revenues it seems pointless to sell a % of the pro 14 or 6 nations when you could get a cash boost by simply forward selling against future revenues which would not involve giving up any ownership. 

things that happened to F1 under CVC:
They go for the highest bidder regardless of the sport interest in that country.

Formula One Teams under Eccleston received 47% cut of TV revenue and race promoter fees. Under CVC this grew to 50% but included all the sport’s income streams.

Also, the season and its structure. 21 races instead of 19 and:
"big difference is how many races now take place far away from the team’s European bases. Non-European rounds have increased by 50% in this period, and that’s if we count distant Azerbaijan as a European race"

Things that could happen as they see rugby as an incredibly under marketed sport...which it is (just my ideas, based on nothing solid):
Rugby channel similar to the F1 channel. 

Pro14 and Premiership already in with CVC.

More involvement from South African teams as the South African market is HUGE which is something CVC like very much.

American teams: again this is a possibility...how it will work...Toronto Wolves have done ok and been welcomed in rugby league community who are always open to new things (TMO, moving the season to the summer, Thursday night kick offs, Magic Weekends, theyve done a lot of new things to try and increase numbers and interest).

and then the big one...Anglo Welsh League.
British League is not likely as the Irish dont want it. Plenty of theories on why that is!..but Anglo Welsh could be seen as ideal for CVC. Irish, Scottish, Italian and South Africans may not be happy to lose Welsh regions, but, if CVC want it, it will happen. Anglo Welsh league would also still make a european league interesting. If it became British and Irish League, then IMO it becomes a bit pointless.


Interesting - thanks for that summary.

I do hope, though, that we are not going to have to travel to Saudi or the Emirates to see Wales or the Scarlets play!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lots of focus on CVC money but I do wonder if it will prove to be beneficial in the medium/long term. Don't know enough about their F1 involvement but unless they can generate significant increases in TV revenues which will increase their stakeholding's worth then I see no compelling reason for their involvement from their own perspective. 

Perhaps some of the petrol heads on here can shed some light on their F1 involvement. Unless there are serious plans to boost media revenues it seems pointless to sell a % of the pro 14 or 6 nations when you could get a cash boost by simply forward selling against future revenues which would not involve giving up any ownership. 

things that happened to F1 under CVC:
They go for the highest bidder regardless of the sport interest in that country.

Formula One Teams under Eccleston received 47% cut of TV revenue and race promoter fees. Under CVC this grew to 50% but included all the sport’s income streams.

Also, the season and its structure. 21 races instead of 19 and:
"big difference is how many races now take place far away from the team’s European bases. Non-European rounds have increased by 50% in this period, and that’s if we count distant Azerbaijan as a European race"

Things that could happen as they see rugby as an incredibly under marketed sport...which it is (just my ideas, based on nothing solid):
Rugby channel similar to the F1 channel. 

Pro14 and Premiership already in with CVC.

More involvement from South African teams as the South African market is HUGE which is something CVC like very much.

American teams: again this is a possibility...how it will work...Toronto Wolves have done ok and been welcomed in rugby league community who are always open to new things (TMO, moving the season to the summer, Thursday night kick offs, Magic Weekends, theyve done a lot of new things to try and increase numbers and interest).

and then the big one...Anglo Welsh League.
British League is not likely as the Irish dont want it. Plenty of theories on why that is!..but Anglo Welsh could be seen as ideal for CVC. Irish, Scottish, Italian and South Africans may not be happy to lose Welsh regions, but, if CVC want it, it will happen. Anglo Welsh league would also still make a european league interesting. If it became British and Irish League, then IMO it becomes a bit pointless.


Thanks for that - very interesting. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2020 at 3:03pm
CVC will push for a b&I league, will push for PPV rugby (certainly no more free to air games ) and will imo look to get either japan or SA into an extended 6 nations
 
That is just my guess though
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