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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: english championship
    Posted: 13 February 2020 at 6:19am
I see that the English championship clubs are up in arms regarding having their funding halved next season,they are thinking of forming a breakaway league and and introducing a salary cap which would scupper sarries plans to hold on to Farrell and others,the pro 14 was mentioned as a possibility for some clubs,could be a good chance to get some English clubs on board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 8:29am
All this has achieved Nigel is to make even bigger the gap between the 'haves and have nots' in that League.

Hartbury et al cannot compete with the likes of Newcastle and Ealing, who have significant seven figure budgets, and who won't be hugely affected by this.

So whilst it certainly makes that league less competitive moving forward, it perhaps does little to change the number of teams who could possibly bridge the gap to the Gallagher Prem.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 8:53am
Its another sign that, remarkable as it may seem, the RFU are going through a period of financial pressure. Dean Ryan left his post to join the Dragons because of the draconian cuts being made to coaching groups under his command. The RFU are in danger of losing sight of the next generation of talent if they continue to deprive them of necessary funding. I am reminded of Will Carling's classic comment about old farts in blazers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 8:57am
How could Championship teams hope to compete in the pro 14? For sure next season Saracens would be competitive but who else. Ealing, Bedford, Nottingham etc are good grass roots clubs but we are talking Llandovery, Carmarthen Quins, level not Ulster & Edinburgh. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 9:16am
Funny how we, the pro 14, are always mentioned as a solution to any problem in world rugby. There are some clubs that I would love to help- Jersey, Ampthill, Cornish Pirates amongst them and others that I would be less inclined to but we are not the solution to this issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 9:34am
Originally posted by Once a monkey Once a monkey wrote:

All this has achieved Nigel is to make even bigger the gap between the 'haves and have nots' in that League.

Hartbury et al cannot compete with the likes of Newcastle and Ealing, who have significant seven figure budgets, and who won't be hugely affected by this.

So whilst it certainly makes that league less competitive moving forward, it perhaps does little to change the number of teams who could possibly bridge the gap to the Gallagher Prem.


cheers steveThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 10:57am
On the face of it, it's a disappointing decision. But when you look at some of the clubs in the Championship - they don't have the facilities or budget to ever compete in the English premiership. They're miles off. So it is understandable that the RFU see hundreds of thousands going on what is more or less a bunch of semi-pro players. The academies are the things that should get funded and they presumably will still be funded.

We say in Wales that there should really be a split between the pro game and the amateur game. So what difference is this? The relegation and promotion aspect is the sticking point for the english prem. But it's a difficult situation for the RFU. They will always fund the amateur game and community game, just like the WRU do here - but how much is the right amount?

How much is the right amount for the WRU to give Carmarthen Q, Pontypridd, Llandovery etc?

I feel for any club facing the threat of job losses. But at the end of the day, English rugby has to decide if it's feasible for people to earn a living by being employed 100% by the likes of Doncaster and Ampthill or not.

On a positive note - this might help ring-fence the PRL clubs and be one step closer to a British and Irish league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 11:16am
This could get very nasty.  The championship sides are considering ring fencing their league and setting wage caps, that will seriously hamper Saracens who will be competing in the league next season Whilst still probably be functioning with considerable costs attached.
An enquiry about possibly joining the Pro14 by some of those championship sides sounds interesting.  Saracens (a championship side next season) would be a great addition, so too an Ealing Trailfinders, London Welsh or a Cornish Pirates.  This enquiry may in turn force the premiership clubs to serious consider a British League through fear of missing out on the financial benefits of such a league should they’ve beaten to it by some of the championship sides.
The Pro 14 could well be the beneficiaries of this big call by the RFU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

 The championship sides are considering ring fencing their league and setting wage caps


How can they do that? Isn't the Championship owned by the RFU ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

On the face of it, it's a disappointing decision. But when you look at some of the clubs in the Championship - they don't have the facilities or budget to ever compete in the English premiership. They're miles off. So it is understandable that the RFU see hundreds of thousands going on what is more or less a bunch of semi-pro players. The academies are the things that should get funded and they presumably will still be funded.

We say in Wales that there should really be a split between the pro game and the amateur game. So what difference is this? The relegation and promotion aspect is the sticking point for the english prem. But it's a difficult situation for the RFU. They will always fund the amateur game and community game, just like the WRU do here - but how much is the right amount?

How much is the right amount for the WRU to give Carmarthen Q, Pontypridd, Llandovery etc?

I feel for any club facing the threat of job losses. But at the end of the day, English rugby has to decide if it's feasible for people to earn a living by being employed 100% by the likes of Doncaster and Ampthill or not.

On a positive note - this might help ring-fence the PRL clubs and be one step closer to a British and Irish league.

 
a) some of the teams are fully pro with 7 figure budgets, Newcastle, Ealing et al. The funding isn't provided for promotion into the Prem but for development of players outside the traditional academy structures.
b) you are only technically allowed a funded academy attached to a club if you have been in the Premiership. There is no academy funding in the Championship
c) There is promotion and relegation from Gallagher, not applicable in Wales, hence why you legitimately have that cross over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Once a monkey Once a monkey wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

On the face of it, it's a disappointing decision. But when you look at some of the clubs in the Championship - they don't have the facilities or budget to ever compete in the English premiership. They're miles off. So it is understandable that the RFU see hundreds of thousands going on what is more or less a bunch of semi-pro players. The academies are the things that should get funded and they presumably will still be funded.

We say in Wales that there should really be a split between the pro game and the amateur game. So what difference is this? The relegation and promotion aspect is the sticking point for the english prem. But it's a difficult situation for the RFU. They will always fund the amateur game and community game, just like the WRU do here - but how much is the right amount?

How much is the right amount for the WRU to give Carmarthen Q, Pontypridd, Llandovery etc?

I feel for any club facing the threat of job losses. But at the end of the day, English rugby has to decide if it's feasible for people to earn a living by being employed 100% by the likes of Doncaster and Ampthill or not.

On a positive note - this might help ring-fence the PRL clubs and be one step closer to a British and Irish league.

 
a) some of the teams are fully pro with 7 figure budgets, Newcastle, Ealing et al. The funding isn't provided for promotion into the Prem but for development of players outside the traditional academy structures.
b) you are only technically allowed a funded academy attached to a club if you have been in the Premiership. There is no academy funding in the Championship
c) There is promotion and relegation from Gallagher, not applicable in Wales, hence why you legitimately have that cross over.


Thanks for that. I appreciate your vested interest.

Newcastle are a PRL club so it doesn't really apply to them though. The Championship is already lop-sided towards the few with the money and this will make it more so I expect

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Once a monkey Once a monkey wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

On the face of it, it's a disappointing decision. But when you look at some of the clubs in the Championship - they don't have the facilities or budget to ever compete in the English premiership. They're miles off. So it is understandable that the RFU see hundreds of thousands going on what is more or less a bunch of semi-pro players. The academies are the things that should get funded and they presumably will still be funded.

We say in Wales that there should really be a split between the pro game and the amateur game. So what difference is this? The relegation and promotion aspect is the sticking point for the english prem. But it's a difficult situation for the RFU. They will always fund the amateur game and community game, just like the WRU do here - but how much is the right amount?

How much is the right amount for the WRU to give Carmarthen Q, Pontypridd, Llandovery etc?

I feel for any club facing the threat of job losses. But at the end of the day, English rugby has to decide if it's feasible for people to earn a living by being employed 100% by the likes of Doncaster and Ampthill or not.

On a positive note - this might help ring-fence the PRL clubs and be one step closer to a British and Irish league.

 
a) some of the teams are fully pro with 7 figure budgets, Newcastle, Ealing et al. The funding isn't provided for promotion into the Prem but for development of players outside the traditional academy structures.
b) you are only technically allowed a funded academy attached to a club if you have been in the Premiership. There is no academy funding in the Championship
c) There is promotion and relegation from Gallagher, not applicable in Wales, hence why you legitimately have that cross over.


Thanks for that. I appreciate your vested interest.

Newcastle are a PRL club so it doesn't really apply to them though. The Championship is already lop-sided towards the few with the money and this will make it more so I expect

Absolutely mate. You just have to look at the table to see it is very two tiered. The reality is that the reduction in funding won't affect those with genuine GPrem aspirations. In the meantime, it will make the bottom 5-6 teams cannon fodder moving forward.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 1:40pm
I've given this about 10 minutes thought and know virtually nothing about the championship and what does and doesn't work so I'm pretty sure I'll change my mind or be completely wrong.....
But it instinctively feels like the England should be able to accommodate a second tier of professional/semi-professional rugby to cater for those who are happy to earn a more modest wage from rugby, those who didn't quite make the cut at a certain age but still might long term or those that are just late developers.
 
If you'd capped wages at 50k with say players earning between 10k and 50k your looking at a squad cost of just over a million, add in coaching, staffing and costs could take it to around 2 million. Between sponsorship, RFU funding, sales, season tickets etc. is doesn't seem bonkers to think it could work as a viable product.
 
It would be interesting to know what these metrics are that the championship clubs have failed to hit which should give a view of what the RFU think the championships purpose is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:


If you'd capped wages at 50k with say players earning between 10k and 50k your looking at a squad cost of just over a million, add in coaching, staffing and costs could take it to around 2 million. Between sponsorship, RFU funding, sales, season tickets etc. is doesn't seem bonkers to think it could work as a viable product.


I'm not sure that works for the relegated team though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2020 at 3:30pm
Sorry that was based on the top tier being ring fenced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2020 at 7:37am
Most Championship clubs compiling a list of players that they 'developed' for both the Prem. sides or indeed international duty as part of their defence to these changes.

I don't really get that. That can, and surely will, still happen...the only change I can see is that certain PL clubs will forge even closer ties with their Championship 'sister' clubs and just carry on ( the less well off clubs). whilst a handful of others go chasing Prem league status.



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