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Fonotia 3 week ban

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NobbySosban View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2018 at 11:32am
It seems Scarlets have a policy of 'full cooperation' with the Disciplinary Committee.

Makes sense, perhaps, not to aggravate the procedure & get a reputation for contending citings, to take the rough with the smooth. But I just can't get me noodle around Tipuric's actions against Sam H-C in the very same game getting a very different outcome. #Consistency Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2018 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

And it will only get worse if players are cited on an outcome based process

I think you said this earlier in the thread but how do you mean? Maybe I have misunderstood but I thought it is by definition an outcome based process. E.g. gouging is against the law because of the risk of blinding someone. If you have deliberately made contact with they eye and they have no injury versus you have done so and blinded them I would expect the latter to be punished more severely. There is an element of chance as the same gouge with same intent can have different outcomes yes, I get that, but the severity of the outcome must be a factor in determining sanctions. Same in law - shooting someone, for example. Different punishment if they are injured versus die yet the action is the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crj89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2018 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

It seems Scarlets have a policy of 'full cooperation' with the Disciplinary Committee.

Makes sense, perhaps, not to aggravate the procedure & get a reputation for contending citings, to take the rough with the smooth. But I just can't get me noodle around Tipuric's actions against Sam H-C in the very same game getting a very different outcome. #Consistency Wacko


I could be wrong, but because Nigel Owens gave a penalty and deemed a penalty to be sufficient, there is no need for further penalty against Tipuric. Seems a bit mad when Fonotia gets 3 weeks for that incident.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2018 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

And it will only get worse if players are cited on an outcome based process


I think you said this earlier in the thread but how do you mean? Maybe I have misunderstood but I thought it is by definition an outcome based process. E.g. gouging is against the law because of the risk of blinding someone. If you have deliberately made contact with they eye and they have no injury versus you have done so and blinded them I would expect the latter to be punished more severely. There is an element of chance as the same gouge with same intent can have different outcomes yes, I get that, but the severity of the outcome must be a factor in determining sanctions. Same in law - shooting someone, for example. Different punishment if they are injured versus die yet the action is the same.


I mean that if Sam H-Clyne had gone for a HIA, then I reckon Tipuric may have been cited or even yellow. But he didn't.

If George North hadn't been injured, then Fonotia may not have been cited. But he was.

So the severity of the ban / punishment is in the hands of the tackled player not the tackler / offender.

This is what Keith Earls said when he was sent off. He claimed that the Glasgow player milked his landing and "could have done more to protect himself". I.e. : he knew that if he landed on his shoulder or head there would be greater chance of Earls being sent off - at that point - the tackler's punishment is in the hands of the tackled player. That's wrong.

That's why you are seeing more dives like in the clip above. Because players know that if there is an outcome (injury, HIA, head knock) then there is more likelihood of the action being punished.

You stay down on the floor - the offence becomes more serious.

You can't compare it with common law - there are no TMOs, red cards and sports people looking to gain a competitive advantage in common law.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2018 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Ulster an area got 4 weeks for his red card.

Interestingly, he did not accept it was an act worthy of a red card.

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/10/10/disciplinary-hearing-decision-rea/

He still got a 50% discount!!!

For some reason, your link doesn't work on my laptop so I'll try to load it again:


Indeed, it makes no sense that pleading not guilty to a red card doesn't have any effect on the ban, when Fonotia pleaded guilty for something unintentional, and still only gets a 50% discount!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 October 2018 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

It seems Scarlets have a policy of 'full cooperation' with the Disciplinary Committee.

Makes sense, perhaps, not to aggravate the procedure & get a reputation for contending citings, to take the rough with the smooth. But I just can't get me noodle around Tipuric's actions against Sam H-C in the very same game getting a very different outcome. #Consistency Wacko


I could be wrong, but because Nigel Owens gave a penalty and deemed a penalty to be sufficient, there is no need for further penalty against Tipuric. Seems a bit mad when Fonotia gets 3 weeks for that incident.

you can still be cited even if it was dealt with on the pitch. the decision will be made at the hearing whether they deemed the pen/yellow/red as sufficiant punishment or dish out a ban.




Edited by PE SA - 11 October 2018 at 4:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2018 at 8:14pm
This perfectly illustrates my point....
https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/1050817032160235520?s=19

Penalty only

That is only a penalty because the player in the air has strong thighs!

The Ulster player last week did more or less exactly the same thing. And got a red card and a month ban.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2018 at 4:01pm
if Conway does not get 6 week ban for assault on Exeter kicker then we will know there is something
very wrong with system
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnasher1975 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2018 at 7:41pm
amazing, last week 7 final warnings, this week, penalty try for 1st offence 🙄🙄🙄
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2018 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

if Conway does not get 6 week ban for assault on Exeter kicker then we will know there is something
very wrong with system


The sport is just rancid at the moment. Absolutely rancid. 3 weeks for Fonotia. And nothing to an elbow of the throat of a player who's just kicked a place kick.

?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2018 at 9:04am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

if Conway does not get 6 week ban for assault on Exeter kicker then we will know there is something
very wrong with system


The sport is just rancid at the moment. Absolutely rancid. 3 weeks for Fonotia. And nothing to an elbow of the throat of a player who's just kicked a place kick.

?




So that was nothing?

How come Rob Evans got penalised yesterday, then? He was at least as 'committed to the tackle' as this guy - who anyway was not allowed to tackle as the kicker never had the ball in his hands? And all Rob did was push the guy, not clout him in the neck.

These inconsistencies in reffing are bringing the game into disrepute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2018 at 9:22pm
From today. Anybody think it will get a 3 week ban?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matthew Cardey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2018 at 9:25pm
Don't see anything wrong with that, his left hand tries to hand him off and his right arm with the ball in it hits his chest?
There were countless other things sarries were getting away with. Their clear outs were ridiculous at times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2018 at 9:30pm
It's identical to Fonotia's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henry_winkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2018 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

if Conway does not get 6 week ban for assault on Exeter kicker then we will know there is something
very wrong with system


The sport is just rancid at the moment. Absolutely rancid. 3 weeks for Fonotia. And nothing to an elbow of the throat of a player who's just kicked a place kick.

?





So that was nothing?

How come Rob Evans got penalised yesterday, then? He was at least as 'committed to the tackle' as this guy - who anyway was not allowed to tackle as the kicker never had the ball in his hands? And all Rob did was push the guy, not clout him in the neck.

These inconsistencies in reffing are bringing the game into disrepute.


It's not just reffing, it's tmo's and citing commissioners

Refs are making snap judgements, the others are rotten to the core.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2018 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

It's identical to Fonotia's
Except the defender’s head goes back forcefully, North’ didn’t
We're still still here!
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