Ratko Mladic |
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lofty evans
Rambler Joined: 20 September 2007 Location: Gorseinon Status: Offline Points: 53415 |
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This peace keeping banner they go in with, should mean it. I take on board they can send in the wrong sort of soldier/ country and being a band of Nations can be a bit of a lottery. Agree the country is a bit nuts, the photos ive seen of that time from my brother in law who was also out there, convey those images of bloody hell. I just get embarrassed that the best of human kindness, courage and convictions, from the powers that be, to the men on the ground, left innocent civilians and children be shot at and mown down, in my lifetime. Hitlers mob were before my time and that was just appalling, to witness something that mirrors another time, in an age where Human beings were supposed to have grown up, is just unthinkable. |
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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
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Once a monkey
Veteran Pull !!! Joined: 30 December 2008 Status: Offline Points: 15041 |
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The trouble with the UN, and indeed Srebrinica, Lofty was that the man on the ground who saw the wrongs had such an extended chain of command to follow before acting that it was inevitable that problems would occur. Political sensitivities took precedence over human rights, as you say.
Soldier A reported to a platoon commander, who reported to a company commander, who reported to Battalion Headquarters, who reported to the UN headquarters on the ground, who then reported to the UN HQ in New York, who then had a chat about it for a couple of hours, went for lunch, came back, considered it further and then, perhaps, made a decision. By then it was too late.
The system failed then and, it appears, the UN appear to be doing little better in parts of Africa to this day. But, if genocide in Europe in the later part of the 20th century wasn't going to change things, what hope for Africa?
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#George
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lofty evans
Rambler Joined: 20 September 2007 Location: Gorseinon Status: Offline Points: 53415 |
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Good points, but what hope for everyone if decent people cannot see the right thing. |
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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50983 |
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Wonder if this will at least start the process of acountability for Srebrenica.
Edited by Wil Chips - 05 July 2011 at 10:50am |
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lofty evans
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Probably, but yet again highlights the sheer sadness of it all.
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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
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Once a monkey
Veteran Pull !!! Joined: 30 December 2008 Status: Offline Points: 15041 |
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Maybe Lofty, but to me it highlights the gutless way in which the Dutch forces acted. They should hang their heads in shame.
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#George
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omri jones
Veteran Joined: 27 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 6996 |
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The killing of any civilians is a war crime, but the winners get away with it. No one stood trial for the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki which were then largely occupied by women, children and the old. No one was punished for the carpet bombing of N.Vietnam started on the pretext that North Vietnamese torpedo boats had attacked the U.S. fleet (later admitted to be a lie) or the use of napalm, agent orange and cluster bombs containing thousands of plastic needles which could not be detected by X-ray. What makes so many Serbs support Mladic is the fact that only one side, the side supported by the USA, is usually brought to justice. Mladic was only handed over when the Serb government was was told that their application to join the EU would be rejected unless he was extradited. As one Serb put it "this is the only example in history of rats jumping on to a sinking ship"
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Once a monkey
Veteran Pull !!! Joined: 30 December 2008 Status: Offline Points: 15041 |
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Hiroshima and Nagasaki were carried out "for the greater good", the reasoning being that the death of those concerned saved the lives of millions of others. It was a World War in which Japan chose to involve itself, so the situation was different. All parties were as guilty as the other.
Vietnam was a war of ideologies, which took place on a continent before human rights became vogue, and at a time when atrocities were sadly common place. Again, both sides were to blame.
What makes the Mladic story so abhorrent, is that he carried out ethnic cleansing on a continent still shocked and embarassed from the atrocitieis of the 1930/40's, and did so under the gaze of the very organisation which existed to protect the innocent. The reasoning for his trial in no way deflects from the acts he perpetrated, and the fact that the rationale was for doing so was a war some 800 years before.
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#George
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omri jones
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Human rights is something the west emphasizes only when it's about to attack some poorly equipped nation who stands up to it. NATO. is supposed to be attacking Lybia for "humanitarian" reasons. They have flown over 2000 missions in their advanced aircraft and attack helicopters and used their most powerfull non -nuclear weapons after destroying the Libyan air defences. They have killed one of Gadaffi's son and two grandchildren in an attempt to asassinate Gadaffi. Money is no object to destroy their infrastructure but ask for a genuine show of humanity and there is little to be seen. A few weeks into the start of the war 72 refugees from the fighting left Libya but ran out of fuel. They were passed by numerous NATO warships and helicopters all of which ignored their distress calls. By the time they finally made land only 64 had not died from lack of water and food. The West is totally hypocritical in its approach to human rights and war crimes and it is only able to maintain its stance with the aid of a compliant media which repeats ad nauseum some stories and conveniently brushes others under the carpet.
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maldwyn
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Up the bum no harm done.
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omri jones
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Human rights is something the west emphasizes only when it's about to attack some poorly equipped nation who stands up to it. NATO. is supposed to be attacking Lybia for "humanitarian" reasons. They have flown over 2000 missions in their advanced aircraft and attack helicopters and used their most powerfull non-nuclear weapons after destroying the Libyan air defences. They have killed one of Gadaffi's sons and two grandchildren in an attempt to asassinate Gadaffi. Money is no object if it's to destroy the Lybian infrastructure but ask for a genuine show of humanity and there is little to be seen. A few weeks into the start of the war 72 refugees fleeing by boat from the fighting left Libya ran out of fuel. They were passed by numerous NATO warships and helicopters all of which ignored their distress calls. By the time they finally made land only 11 had not died from lack of water and food. The West is totally hypocritical in its approach to human rights and war crimes and it is only able to maintain its stance with the aid of a compliant media which repeats ad nauseum some stories and conveniently brushes others under the carpet.
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redeyes
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The massacre in Srebonica had nothing whatsoever to do with standing up to the West. It was ethnic cleansing!I really can't understand the comparison between the current Libyan conflict, where Nato are trying to get rid of another crazy despot, and the situation in Srebonica where thousands of innocent men and boys were slaughtered.
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The stadium may change, but the dream will remain the same!
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Once a monkey
Veteran Pull !!! Joined: 30 December 2008 Status: Offline Points: 15041 |
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Where am I agueing to the contrary?
As for a compliant media, I don't necessarily agree that all media organisations buy into the government line, but many clearly do. I'd hazard a guess that the paper from which you sourced the above story perhaps don't or is that a personal experience?
In any event, NATO have perpetrated far worse 'crimes' over the last 20 years, many of which simply never made the press. But in amongst all that, Mladic is still a murdering barstand, and history is generally written and guided by the victors of wars and conflicts.
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#George
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Once a monkey
Veteran Pull !!! Joined: 30 December 2008 Status: Offline Points: 15041 |
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#George
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SMELLYMIKE
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An interesting point that comes out of this debate is that ultimately money buys the west and especially the Americans the moral ground...America has been involved in many underhanded schemes in central america in the past which has been conveniently overlooked .The un as an institution has often been influenced by American thinking via its european allies(mainly us)....Now my point is , what will happen in the next 50 years when china becomes the global giant , with its world wide influence......whilst i feel most can understand the psyche of another western goverment , i feel we will all struggle to come to terms with a chinese mentality.
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Wil Chips
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Peaked and already in decline, economy under-cooked and then over-heated...aspirations of the common man will never be met. All the ingredients in place just as they were when Gorbarchev came to power in Russia. The country will spiral in to civil war and ultimately a swathe of smaller domains.
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