Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - do we do enough to attract players
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


do we do enough to attract players

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
al25 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 February 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote al25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: do we do enough to attract players
    Posted: 26 March 2005 at 6:41am

being really bored in work last night i got to thinking how much do the region do to attract players.in one post someone mention horsman may not want to come due to worcester signing a few players, yet there languishing near the bottom of the zurich while we will be in the heiniken cup next season surley a selling point.we are constantly told we strive to be the best in europe yet the same excuse comes up "we cant afford his wages".how much is being done to find the money i.e more sponsors(we seem to have had the same ones as long as i can remember) what about individual player sponsors where the club pays some of the wages and the sponsor the rest and gets there company specifically on that player.i know for fact a local car company offered to pay gavin hensons wages a couple of seasons back but GJ didnt want him because of his attitude at the time.surely there are hundreds of big businesses locally who are scarlet supporters.im not saying this is an anwser but nothing seems to get done ,when surley there are many things that can be done to get these top players.we should be showing these players plans of the new ground dangle the carrot of the HC etc really try and sell the club, but i have to ask how much do we do to attract them. i mean we lost ryan jones to the ospreys why? probably showed him around the new ground and sold themselves to him!!! p.s sorry to go for so long

 

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Jerry Dammers View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 9:23am

One must question certain judgements,also if there's a case of any degree of self interest anywhere in the club, and there's also the fact that Stradey is falling to bits and quite frankly looks terrible (another debate entirely!). The income generated by Stradey does not come close to sustaining a top flight squad which means limited scope for investment. Evans' money has kept us afloat and alive but as far as i'm aware it still does not match with other benefactors and associated investors (not a dig at Evans before the inevitable defence posts). 

We've had the carrot of Euro rugby for a pretty long time, now and again name players sign, but most of the time in my opinion we lose out due to better wages being offered elsewhere or the fact we can't better what a player's already on (fact! that comes from a coach at Amman Utd who was asked his advice by a certain player who decided why should he move for the same money, and this season it looks like the right choice). We're a big, recognisable and trophy laden side, attendances taken on average say we're basically the most supported region, but off field in my opinion I think we're light years behind. I presume a good professional player would look at the off field state of affairs as well as on field. Off field it will slowly go in the right direction, at least on the commercial front, I will refain from commenting on the bigger picture.

Back to Top
Pedro Diniz View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 05 August 2004
Location: Saint Pierre
Status: Offline
Points: 2752
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pedro Diniz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 11:08am
Money does talk, unfortunately, and Horsman's wages at Worcester are very substantial. What's worrying is even though they are bottom of the Zurich, they can still attract big-ish names and tempt them with pots of cash...read on ceefax about them signing Andy Gomarsall for £50,000 MORE than Gloucester are paying him, and Shane Drahm for £150,000 a season!!!
"I can't see the Germans getting back into this...they've only got Kuntz up front..."
(Alan Hansen, during Euro 96).
Back to Top
Jerry Dammers View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 11:25am

Worcester are backed and have been backed for quite a while, I seem to remember the backer funding their ground as well. Can't for the life of me remember who he is though, I could look on the Worcester website I suppose......

Plus the fact they do have a good, easily accessible stadium and good crowds. As they look like staying up and attracting good signings, I presume they'll improve again. Looks like his investment is paying off slowly.

Back to Top
Abbey View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 07 November 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 11:45am

This is a very good thread to which the real answer will not be that popular.

Unfortunately, it may come down to the fact that we have a higher opinion of ourselves than others see us. This goes through the whole Welsh psyche. Only a month ago there were postings on here (mine included) calling Mark Taylor all sorts for wanting away to Toulouse after collecting his wage for no return over the last 5 months. Yet, after a Grand Slam appearance he is Lord God Almighty and if you dare say anything negative about him then you are chastised for no other reason than he played against Ireland. We won the 6 Nations Championship in a very grand style but suddenly we see ourselves as world beaters again. A little reality check is in order.

And so it comes to the Llanelli Scarlets. Ask yourselves why anyone would seriously consider joining us? We can't match ZP wages (ever relegation fodder like Leeds), are tucked away in the westernmost corner of the UK and are perennial bridesmaids. However, that could be the description of Munster yet they signed Cullen.

So what do we have to offer the "names"? Not money; A slight chance of Heineken success; Success in the CL, which amounts to what?

We're not even the biggest fish in Wales anymore. The Ospreys have a great squad and a spanking new stadium. Even Cardiff have finally realised that you have to recruit from your own youth. What are we doing? Scrabbling around for second rate foreigners. Leinster managed to keep BOD and The Ospreys have kept Henson. What happened to our "star"? He left to play in France. If we can't keep locally bred players then how can we attract the likes of Merthens? As for Horsman - perhaps he's different as he should be playing in Wales if he want's to become a regular international.

We need a strategy from the club. The new stadium should be a good start. We also need financial stability.

 

Back to Top
yedarts View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 16 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yedarts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 12:23pm
Good post.
Back to Top
Jerry Dammers View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

This is a very good thread to which the real answer will not be that popular.

Unfortunately, it may come down to the fact that we have a higher opinion of ourselves than others see us. This goes through the whole Welsh psyche. Only a month ago there were postings on here (mine included) calling Mark Taylor all sorts for wanting away to Toulouse after collecting his wage for no return over the last 5 months. Yet, after a Grand Slam appearance he is Lord God Almighty and if you dare say anything negative about him then you are chastised for no other reason than he played against Ireland. We won the 6 Nations Championship in a very grand style but suddenly we see ourselves as world beaters again. A little reality check is in order.

And so it comes to the Llanelli Scarlets. Ask yourselves why anyone would seriously consider joining us? We can't match ZP wages (ever relegation fodder like Leeds), are tucked away in the westernmost corner of the UK and are perennial bridesmaids. However, that could be the description of Munster yet they signed Cullen.

So what do we have to offer the "names"? Not money; A slight chance of Heineken success; Success in the CL, which amounts to what?

We're not even the biggest fish in Wales anymore. The Ospreys have a great squad and a spanking new stadium. Even Cardiff have finally realised that you have to recruit from your own youth. What are we doing? Scrabbling around for second rate foreigners. Leinster managed to keep BOD and The Ospreys have kept Henson. What happened to our "star"? He left to play in France. If we can't keep locally bred players then how can we attract the likes of Merthens? As for Horsman - perhaps he's different as he should be playing in Wales if he want's to become a regular international.

We need a strategy from the club. The new stadium should be a good start. We also need financial stability.

 

Truth hurts to some people, good post. We really must have a chat if we bump into each other!

Back to Top
Captain View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 25 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 1:53pm

I think we need something to freshen up the club. New Ideas. I would gave our coaching staff one year, and if they are not producing the goods, then I thinks we have to look else where.

Before I get hate mail. think for one moment. We have gone from a side who could beat anyone with our back, but our forwards were light weight to a side who is forward based. It is not the Scarlet way We need exciting backs will a forward platform. Id Nigel doing anything. Don't get me wrong, an Excellent player in his time a really creative player, but he is not bring out the best in our backs. Tal should be in the Center, he is not a wing.

 

Rant over

Back to Top
Jerry Dammers View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 2:12pm

Watkins/Selley should be the regular pairing, said that before. Finau would still amke an excellent impact player, he did have a good show against Cardiff, he's still got it!

Let's hang on a bit, been stated so many times we need wingers/centres/OH etc.Wait until July and see what happens before the lynch mobs are out.....

Back to Top
al25 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 February 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote al25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2005 at 3:53pm
i hope we do make some qaulity signings in the summer though as we can all see where we are going im sure GJ can too.who knows what the anwser is but something needs to be done sooner rather than later or we'll have a stadium and no players to put in it, i think its about time people down stradey stopped harping on being the elite in europe and started showing it on and off the feild.like iv'e said we need to be finding more sponsors i beleive toulouse have something like 120 main ones,prospective signings should be shown plans for the stadium or taken to the site,we should be making them excited to join a club thats going somewhere not one thats just gone stale, i suppose its easy for me to criticise but it is frustrating when you see us linked to a top class player only for "wages too high" to be constantly mentioned, hell sometimes these players go to other welsh regions which we should at least be on a par with.as much as i hate to say the ospreys seem to be on the right track i just hope we dont leave it too long before we start catching them up.i wait with bated breath to see who puts pen to paper this summer, and will gladly apologise if we do make some qaulity signings
Back to Top
s.pimpernel View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
A.F.K.A.P.

Joined: 17 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 13847
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2005 at 2:56am
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

This is a very good thread to which the real answer will not be that popular.

Unfortunately, it may come down to the fact that we have a higher opinion of ourselves than others see us. This goes through the whole Welsh psyche. Only a month ago there were postings on here (mine included) calling Mark Taylor all sorts for wanting away to Toulouse after collecting his wage for no return over the last 5 months. Yet, after a Grand Slam appearance he is Lord God Almighty and if you dare say anything negative about him then you are chastised for no other reason than he played against Ireland. We won the 6 Nations Championship in a very grand style but suddenly we see ourselves as world beaters again. A little reality check is in order.

And so it comes to the Llanelli Scarlets. Ask yourselves why anyone would seriously consider joining us? We can't match ZP wages (ever relegation fodder like Leeds), are tucked away in the westernmost corner of the UK and are perennial bridesmaids. However, that could be the description of Munster yet they signed Cullen.

So what do we have to offer the "names"? Not money; A slight chance of Heineken success; Success in the CL, which amounts to what?

We're not even the biggest fish in Wales anymore. The Ospreys have a great squad and a spanking new stadium. Even Cardiff have finally realised that you have to recruit from your own youth. What are we doing? Scrabbling around for second rate foreigners. Leinster managed to keep BOD and The Ospreys have kept Henson. What happened to our "star"? He left to play in France. If we can't keep locally bred players then how can we attract the likes of Merthens? As for Horsman - perhaps he's different as he should be playing in Wales if he want's to become a regular international.

We need a strategy from the club. The new stadium should be a good start. We also need financial stability.

Sadly, we are now second best to the Ospreys in all departments. I could add more but I`m not the depressive type  

 

 

 

 

Back to Top
s.pimpernel View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
A.F.K.A.P.

Joined: 17 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 13847
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2005 at 2:58am
Originally posted by mr lloyd evans mr lloyd evans wrote:

One must question certain judgements,also if there's a case of any degree of self interest anywhere in the club, and there's also the fact that Stradey is falling to bits and quite frankly looks terrible (another debate entirely!). The income generated by Stradey does not come close to sustaining a top flight squad which means limited scope for investment. Evans' money has kept us afloat and alive but as far as i'm aware it still does not match with other benefactors and associated investors (not a dig at Evans before the inevitable defence posts). 

We've had the carrot of Euro rugby for a pretty long time, now and again name players sign, but most of the time in my opinion we lose out due to better wages being offered elsewhere or the fact we can't better what a player's already on (fact! that comes from a coach at Amman Utd who was asked his advice by a certain player who decided why should he move for the same money, and this season it looks like the right choice). We're a big, recognisable and trophy laden side, attendances taken on average say we're basically the most supported region, but off field in my opinion I think we're light years behind. I presume a good professional player would look at the off field state of affairs as well as on field. Off field it will slowly go in the right direction, at least on the commercial front, I will refain from commenting on the bigger picture.

Was it Ickle by chance??????

Back to Top
Abbey View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 07 November 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2005 at 9:19am

Put yourself in this hypothetical situation.

You are a top quality international with a glowing future. You are nearing the end of your contract with the Scarlets and Ulster make contact with you. What would make you join them? They once won the HC and are Celtic Cup holders. Would you want to move to Belfast?

Now, imagine that they are offering £200K per season as opposed to the £75K you are currently on. What made you change your mind?

Back to Top
Jerry Dammers View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2005 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by mr lloyd evans mr lloyd evans wrote:

One must question certain judgements,also if there's a case of any degree of self interest anywhere in the club, and there's also the fact that Stradey is falling to bits and quite frankly looks terrible (another debate entirely!). The income generated by Stradey does not come close to sustaining a top flight squad which means limited scope for investment. Evans' money has kept us afloat and alive but as far as i'm aware it still does not match with other benefactors and associated investors (not a dig at Evans before the inevitable defence posts). 

We've had the carrot of Euro rugby for a pretty long time, now and again name players sign, but most of the time in my opinion we lose out due to better wages being offered elsewhere or the fact we can't better what a player's already on (fact! that comes from a coach at Amman Utd who was asked his advice by a certain player who decided why should he move for the same money, and this season it looks like the right choice). We're a big, recognisable and trophy laden side, attendances taken on average say we're basically the most supported region, but off field in my opinion I think we're light years behind. I presume a good professional player would look at the off field state of affairs as well as on field. Off field it will slowly go in the right direction, at least on the commercial front, I will refain from commenting on the bigger picture.

Was it Ickle by chance??????

I like to maintain a modicum of mystery......

I did speak to the players brother about it as well. The player was happy to sign, but for the same money would you have bothered? This goes back to the point of the thread, the money couldn't be bettered, fine, but there was nothing else to use as a carrot. Financially we can't really compete due to the efforts of attempting to maintain working to a set budget, at the end of the day we are the region that's least in debt and has the lowest wage outlay. But with a crumbling ground and the proposed new gaff showing no signs of being started, we have nothing to ofer that could clinch a big name. To have nabbed the player I'm talking about would have been a huge signing, extra bums on seats and perhaps commercial spin offs would have been a big pr boost, as well as perhaps influencing a different season form wise. But there you go, player has a league title and a new stadium next season. It's just a shame we couldn't have gone that extra little stretch. With players not having contracts renewed I'll presume it's freeing up a few quid so can we be hopeful of some much needed signings? we really need at least one name who will get a few more punters in. Any news on Parkes/Horsman/Popham? good players all, but we do need a player with the "x" factor to get the supporters a bit excited again!

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2005 at 12:32pm

Could the bottom line in this thread be that the Scarlets did not really have the resources to be able to go alone in the regional setup?

I admit to supporting the go alone policy at the time but with hindsight I am sorry to say that I could have been wrong and that we should have swallowed our collective pride and gone ahead with the merger with the Whites would have the better option in the long term.

Back to Top
Abbey View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 07 November 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 March 2005 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by pennard pennard wrote:

Could the bottom line in this thread be that the Scarlets did not really have the resources to be able to go alone in the regional setup?

I admit to supporting the go alone policy at the time but with hindsight I am sorry to say that I could have been wrong and that we should have swallowed our collective pride and gone ahead with the merger with the Whites would have the better option in the long term.

I see what you are saying, but I think that the regional set-up as a whole was under-funded from the onset. We've lost the Warriors (I saw Samuel in Cardiff watching the football yesterday whilst his former club were playing in the Konica Cup), Tony Brown and how long is Thomas going to bank-roll the Blues?

Hindsight shows us that we went regional at probably the worst time - when the WRU was on it's backside. If it were done now, I'm sure that things would be different and possibly the East, West, Central and North blueprint would have been adopted. I don't think that the regional set-up has anything to do with the Grand Slam success (how can it when we failed so badly in the HC?).

I read an analogy about the NHS but it is as true for the WRU's funding of the regional game. You can demand that someone drives to Scotland, but you won't achieve it by giving the driver £5 worth of petrol. I think that sums it up really. Moffett had a vision of the regions being the best in Europe, but it was massively under-funded compared to the French and English (and even the Irish where they reward the best with the most), so how can we compete? It's no coincidence that the French will in most probability have three semi finalists in the HC - and each team's funding is up to £7 million per season.

A small but significant number of the Welsh squad play outside the regional structure, and that says it all really.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.438 seconds.