The Biggar hit |
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John
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4995 |
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Posted: 17 November 2012 at 1:42pm |
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Why wasn't that hit on Biggar illegal? There was no attempt to grasp him (is that necessary in cleaning out a ruck?) just a shoulder charge which seemed to damage both his shoulder and his nose. What was the difference between last night and the Adam Jones incident on the Lions tour?
I know Biggar is just about the least popular person on this forum but let's confine the answers (largely at least) to the point of rugby law.....
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KID A
Moderator Group Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 27572 |
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agreed. It was exactly the same as Botha wasn't it?
4 weeks standard believe. |
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John
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4995 |
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Then Jiffy is completely useless as an expert..... but we knew that before.
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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There were a lot of what I consider to be illegal tackles and joining rucks in that game, with no attempt to wrap the arms around the player or bind - essentially just shoulder charges. Plus a lot of high arms around the neck area.
It's no surprise; Samoa are always like this - I know it comes across as moaning or being soft so I will say they were completely the better side and deserved to win but I am surprised they get away with it. The officials choked completely - a bit like Ken did from one of those aforementioned high clearouts.
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kcreg
Veteran Joined: 10 January 2006 Location: Paris Status: Offline Points: 12285 |
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lets not forget the samoan's wwe strangehold on ken.
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Tim Opolis
Veteran Joined: 21 April 2008 Location: Llanelli Status: Offline Points: 17990 |
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Precisely! What's going on mun, we say a tackle is high when its above the shoulders, yet in maules and rucks we see players being grabbed around the throat and swung around all over the place. The phrase choke tackle is heard all the time now, surely its not rucking, its not cleaning out, its tackling without the ball and dangerously high tackles. The incident with Ken was disgraceful and surely he'll be cited. Rugby is a hard enough game legally, dont need this.
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Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
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KID A
Moderator Group Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 27572 |
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If Wales had played like that at say Twickenham, they would have been penalised and yellow carded out of the game. But because its Samoa, the officials have the mindset of "that's the way they play"
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Abbey
Veteran Joined: 07 November 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13193 |
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Stephen Jones (Times Journalist) tweeted saying he thought that was the worst refereeing performance he'd seen for 25 years because the referee allowed "moronic Samoan tackling". Just what Wayne Barnea saw when he considered that the player slipped when trying to break Ken's neck, I just don't know. The whole Samoan game was based on shoulder barging which is illegal everywhere else. |
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aber-fan
Veteran Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18857 |
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I totally agree with you guys. The way the game went, Samoa deserved to win - no question - BUT there should have been at least two cards (I'd have given a red for the forearm smash into Biggar's face) which would have changed things just a bit. Let's see if the citing commissioner has more about him than the ref + assistants. |
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 11414 |
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Too late now the game is over. What we need is the refs and linesmen to get a real bo&&^%$ing when they allow such incidents to take place during a game. Samoa should have had at least 2 yellows for foul/dangeous play, additionally their captain was warned for persistent infringing at the ruck and just continued to penalise them. Agree with Jiffy's point this afternoon. We need to put a foot or two on these players, then the refs may be forced to take action. Refs need to be stronger and for them to work with the linesmen in order to get a control of such incidents as we saw last night. Finally I must say that Samoa fully deserved their win, and if their kicker had his boots on the scoreline would have been even more embarrassing.
Edited by ap sior - 17 November 2012 at 6:36pm |
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Eastern outpost
Rambler Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 21939 |
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I've a slightly different view. Nuance rather than reason to fall out. It's re officiating.
Back after dinner. |
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Eastern outpost
Rambler Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 21939 |
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B0110ck officials & they go into their shells.
By all means, constructively criticise & point out how things can be done better, however bringing officials along - apart from JPD tonight - needs more coaxing than anything more harsh. Tonight's ref in confident in his own persona & challenges from those playing. Man management brilliant. Technical stuff is better judged by others. Good to hear him say he'll reverse the pen if they take the p15s out of the oppo for conceding the pen. |
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Eastern outpost
Rambler Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 21939 |
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Re Biggar hit, I've not seen it.
That said, too many "tackles" take place without arms etc & that's the cause of many injuries. No one wants ANYone to be hit by some thuggery, whether he plays for our nearest rivals or not & some have an unforgiving (or worse) attitude to him. He could be a total twit. Equally, he could be a great player not easily liked by supporters of other regions. Whatever the truth is, he doesn't deserve, nor does anyone, an American Football cheap shot type, no arms-style excuse for a tackle. More movement of the ball in open view = better spectacle all round. Edited by Eastern outpost - 17 November 2012 at 8:37pm |
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Jonesyboy1000
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2012 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 420 |
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I think Samoa almost always over-step the mark between physicality and setting out to remove your opponent from the pitch.
I have only seen them play live once, and at one stage there were seven players lying on the floor being treated (including 2 Samoans) and several had medium-term injuries afterwards. It was a pretty disgusting show to be honest. It was interesting to contrast the more controlled physicality of South Africa against Scotland today, which I thought was impressive without resorting to thuggery.
I recently raised this with an ex-Samoan player I met at an event and he felt they were absolutely fearless because of their strong religious faith; this enables them to put their bodies totally on the line with no fear of any injury. This makes them dangerous opponenents in more than one way.
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Two sides referee!
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Eastern outpost
Rambler Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 21939 |
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That said, I'd suggest they and others need to conform to a sensible standard.
If they don't, they can sit down and reflect on their errors. Tonight Doyle ducked no issue. He sat people down and as a result the game was better for it. No warnings that smacked of over-tolerance. Just decisiveness delivered professionally and objectively. Others can comment on his technical ability. Thankfully, he was hotter on offside and space than many this season, so the game flowed better than otherwise. If JPD had reffed the Zebre game, would it have been different? |
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scarletman
Veteran Married with Kids - Close to Bankruptcy Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Heol-y-Cyw Status: Offline Points: 12299 |
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From a Referee's point of view, I "see" the Biggar incident like this ...
Biggar was Jackaling the ball at A RUCK .... Jo join a RUCK players "MUST BE BOUND ON WITH A FULL ARM" (from shouder to hand) ! You can NOT "CLEAN OUT" a player by ramming him with the shoulder/upper arm/elbow ! Had I senn this whilst I was officiating, I would have deemed this Dangerous Play and issued the appropriate CARD This offence if missed is Citable in my opinion ! |
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