UKIP and the rise of the right |
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MikeM
Veteran Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 5433 |
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I'm not saying they should abandon their language. All I'm saying is that they should learn the language. It helps them to get on better in the community that's all. They should integrate in the community and become part of it. Did I mention Sharia, Muslims and Halal. No I didn't so please don't assume that is what I mean but if any immigrant wants to live in this country they should live by our laws and rules. The problem is that when a lot of people from the same country come to live here they tend to collect together in the same area therefore creating their own little community. Edited by MikeM - 27 May 2014 at 9:17pm |
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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That's human nature: ex-pats tend also to befriend ex-pats and there are mini colonies of British ex-pats in numerous places, Spain, France, Patagonia etc. It's an immediate connection and so easier to make friends. Another thing is that these isolated little communities can actually be created due to hostility, even racism, from the indigenous people. This is what happened with some Indian and Pakistani communities in Britain a while ago, as I understand things. For it to become "us and them" can be the fault of both "us" and "them" is my point. I do agree with adhering to local laws of course, unless if in Saudi Arabia, and attempts be made to learn the local language, but care is needed over how this is done as I do not agree with forcing integration. There's a wide variety of ways to live and we can co-exist. If I went to live somewhere and they forced me to adopt to their culture (e.g. if I went to the deep south in the US and I had to marry my cousin and start preachin' Jesus) then that would piss me off. Integration also takes time and learning a new language isn't easy for some: it can often take until the next generation before this occurs - and, even then, things evolve and it's not fixed point of reference. Most British kids all sound like sooooo totally American now I'm all like "wow, are we like, even like British any more?"
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50981 |
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No real range of policies as such, some un-savoury fringes to their ideology, but the party cannot be dismissed.
They may only get a seat or two in a General Election, but will have a significant say in many constituencies, so in that respect they will have a notable influence on the future political landscape. I see some good in this , no question that the main parties didn't see this recent set of results coming and were complacent as a consequence...they will need to urgently review their policies...politicians obliged to sharpen their pencils is never a bad thing. |
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lofty evans
Rambler Joined: 20 September 2007 Location: Gorseinon Status: Offline Points: 53415 |
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Their rise could be related to a new survey that highlights the rising tide of prejudice across Britain. Interestingly its not joe blog manual worker but the educated professionals which have the largest slice.
On another note 5 million children are facing poverty in this Country with all these wonderful reforms. |
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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"
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Abbey
Veteran Joined: 07 November 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13193 |
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What I will concede is that the subject of immigration should have been discussed in an adult fashion when it was obvious that it was a concern to many (whichever side of the argument is correct). As it was brushed under the carpet, we've seen the rise of extreme views becoming accepted.
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geordie scarlet
Veteran Joined: 20 September 2006 Location: Northumberland Status: Offline Points: 3621 |
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Unfortunately society dictates we only focus on the bad things, yes there are gangs of all races who do not abide by our laws , abuse the benefit system, but on the flip side there are members of all races who take on menial jobs, work hard and if out of work, are actively seeking to work - we all know which is more news worthy ! As for abusing a system, the elite (use that word lightly) who abuse the taxation system, are in my view just as bad as the one,s abusing the benefits system
Immigration is an issue , benefit tourism in my view mainly, but so are many other things and this country would be a whole lot better off, if the whole system was revamped ...trouble is who would you have to sort it out. I look at all the parties and it,s more a question of who you don,t want elected, rather than who you want elected
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Abbey
Veteran Joined: 07 November 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13193 |
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Good article in today's Times pointing out that 73% of those who voted didn't put their cross next to UKIP. When you consider that only a third of those eligible actually voted, that means that just 9% of the UK electorate gave their vote to UKIP. Hardly an earth shattering demonstration of a lurch towards them.
Even fewer voted for them in the council elections where 17% voted UKIP or under 6% of those eligible. When you think that the turnout at the last general election was 65% (double that of the European), many of the 91% of the electorate who didn't vote for UKIP will return to the polling booth. |
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supertaf
Veteran Joined: 17 August 2004 Location: Down the Parc Status: Offline Points: 9079 |
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2 responses to a good post Owain - Britain fought to stay British not just to defeat the Nazis. We were fighting against being controlled by another country - see any similarities to now? If you had lived in those days (which I didn't either), you would have seen that Britain was fairly racist in fact and anyone non British was treated like a second class citizen whether we admit it of not. Second point, while you make a good point about UKIP and the Welsh economy, are you therefore saying that no one who voted for UKIP has the intelligence to consider your points or are they just blindly following a dream? |
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Abbey
Veteran Joined: 07 November 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13193 |
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The problem with Britain fighting to stay British is pertinent but out of context. Britain will wither if it were to try and stand alone on the workd's stage unless it really did become like Switzerland and live off banking. Seeing that the country, and indeed the entire world, has almost collapsed after a crisis caused by high risk banking (remember, we're seeing mortgages being offered in London at x17 people's salaries), I'm not sure if it is stable to stake the whole country's future on the banks in today's world. Someone else mentioned Norway - fine, but the voters of the UK have shown time and again that they will vote for any party that offers low taxation, so I can't see anyone agreeing to a Scandinavian high taxation lifestyle. European Union is a fine idea if it develops along economic lines. The reason I said that the "keep Britain British" rhetoric was out of context is that it should be used to fight a federal Europe. The reason I find that idea worrying is that the proponents of this idea (mainly the French and German politicians) do so whilst flying to places like China in the name of Germany and France and not Europe. Angela Merkel is hardly likely to go to Beijing and cut deals for Slovakian workers before those in the heartlands of industrial Germany. And as for the priorities of the French government when it comes to farming........ Better to stay and fight for a less bloated Europe where we trade as one voice but have our separate parliaments and identity. Surely the UK model of devolved government is better than a huge monolith in Brussels? We have to realise that the world in 1939-45 is a far cry from the globalisation of today - it simply didn't exist back then and it's pointless harking back to it. I'd rather engage with the argument, which is the problem with UKIP as they their attendance rates in the European Parliament is pathetic. Edited by Abbey - 29 May 2014 at 12:21pm |
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LLANDRE
Veteran Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 17329 |
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Nice to see the people of Carmarthenshire sticking to there guns with Plaid being the votes within the county. Carmarthen has never been swayed by the general trends of so many. Carmarthen gave us Gwynfor Evans as there first MP and also it was Carmarthen that gave us the Assembly. If Dafydd Wigley hadnt been shafted i suspect they might have gained a lot more across the board.
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West is Best (Fin gwybod)
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OwainLlanedi
Veteran Joined: 01 November 2010 Location: Llanedi Status: Offline Points: 6620 |
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The UKIP representative on the Question Time panel has represented the vacuous and empty drivel this party stands for within 2 minutes. Really scary that this rabble has garnered any support.
Edited by OwainLlanedi - 29 May 2014 at 11:02pm |
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BlackwoodScarlet
Veteran Joined: 12 March 2008 Location: Blackwood Status: Offline Points: 4470 |
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Never mind UkIP on question time, they have that horrible thug Joey Barton on there. |
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LLANDRE
Veteran Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 17329 |
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Lots of the immigrants are doing jobs that the people of this country are not prepared to do. .
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West is Best (Fin gwybod)
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Why
Veteran Joined: 22 August 2010 Status: Online Points: 8738 |
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Look at the choices people had vote for Labour Party who bankrupted the country and joked about it letter left on treasury desk saying good luck all money gone and who had a prime minister who misslead parliament though I call it lying and I responsible for us entering an illegal war. A labour paryy who bave ruined the NHS in Wales. The conservatives who represent about 10 % of the population and look after their own. The liberal democrats who don't know what they stand for and are currently the puppets of the Tories. Look at all the scandals involving our politicians I it no wonder then that when somebody comes along with a populist agenda then people will sit up and take notice.
As for the people of Carmarthen being responsible for us having the Welsh assembly then that is hardly anything to be proud of as the waste of public money by the assembly is bordering on the criminal. |
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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Why
Veteran Joined: 22 August 2010 Status: Online Points: 8738 |
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Edited by Why - 30 May 2014 at 11:34am |
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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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redeyes
Moderator Group Joined: 16 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 12247 |
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I would suggest it's more of a protest vote against the rest rather than support for UKIP. The acid test will be the general election next year, don't bet on them having more than two or three seats in parliament. Saying that, I really hope of of the clowns knock on my door!!!
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