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Speedy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2017 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

It has been decided, some are being totally blinkered in their attitude, which they have the right to be, not necessarily right but it is a free world.

We hate change, and if anything should be learned from last season, is WE MUST CHANGE. We did last year and looked what happened.

A new league set up should be approached as a new challenge, and we adapt, both on and off the field, so we may not be happy but lets carry on and be the last team who won the Pro 12, and the first to win Pro 14
This smack of desperation, blind hope, and rolls of dice.

Its on a par with our worth a punt signings.

I am all for change, trust me, its obvious that change is needed.

But the change has to emulate those trouncing us. Not skirt around the problem.

We have to tackle it head on. Compete.

The very rugby ethos dictates that you fight for every inch, every inch lost is an inch gained by the opposition.

But the passive attitude towards the marketing of our league is pathetic.

This latest development sends out all the wrong signals. They wont support the league properly. They will just rearrange the deckchairs again, and leave the clubs struggle to make anything out of it.

The clubs themselves should be negotiating this, the unions should be kept out of it.

Oh and it would be a pleasant change for meetings to be held in Cardiff for once.

Or is Dublin some sort of Celtic rugby Mecca, and i never got the memo?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2017 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

To be honest pal, the thought of a 7 team 2 conference system will barely get me watching on tv, let alone the ground. So any thought of a season ticket couldnt be further from my mind.

They've really messed up with this one. Its not going to make us any more competitive with the English and French.

This isn't the work of the Scarlets, mind? You're not punishing the league by being disinterested, you're basically just not giving your money to the Scarlets to retain and produce local talent. If it's a protest, it's one that's self-wounding. 

The league structure doesn't particularly appeal to me either, but that's not the point. It's about making sure the club stays afloat - by whatever means I can with my pitiful contribution to a season ticket, shirt and pie-and-a-pint at each game.

No offence, but if your mentality was applied more widely the club would have been dead and buried a long time ago.

Forgive me, but i value my time and money too high to piss it away being dictated to by idiots who cant run the proverbial knees up.

All this to skirt around the important questions, the important accountability.

We hear all these soundbites from howley, gatland etc, and the pro 12.

"we cant compete with England and france bla bla bla"

Then everyone just accepts that and passively, doesn't hold anyone to account for their glaring business failures.

There are huge questions that need asking about the strategy and wisdom in so much of the pro 12s running of the league. 

Why, when they were already behind the gainline and playing catchup, did they tie one hand behind their backs, by insisting on going to terrestial tv?

Why cant the pro 12 get the same level tv deals as the English and French?

Because they are poorly run thats why. England and France are showing them up.
Yet their only response is to copy the Moffet mantra and paint them out to be the villains.

Their solution? Lets mask over the fact we cant run a league effectivley against our competitors, and nip down the rugby scrap yard, and duck tape 2 saffer teams into our system,2 teams that dont really fit and dont share the one unifying quality the celtic and italians had together, which was player welfare.

Thus getting someone else to top up their failings to make them look slightly less catastrophic.




aaaaand breathe.
Because the combined population of the Celtic countries (the market) is about 15 million. Around 1/3rd of the population of England. And the average income of that 1/3 is also lower. So if you're selling subscriptions or advertising you'll pay more for the English league than the Celtic one.

South Africa has a lot of poor people, but also a lot of rich people. In terms of Spending power it's roughly equal to Scotland+Wales.

In terms of choice for expansion, as the English categorically don't want us this is a pretty shrewd move. Same time zone, supportive and reasonably wealthy union, proven interest in rugby etc. 

We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2017 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

It has been decided, some are being totally blinkered in their attitude, which they have the right to be, not necessarily right but it is a free world.

We hate change, and if anything should be learned from last season, is WE MUST CHANGE. We did last year and looked what happened.

A new league set up should be approached as a new challenge, and we adapt, both on and off the field, so we may not be happy but lets carry on and be the last team who won the Pro 12, and the first to win Pro 14

This smack of desperation, blind hope, and rolls of dice.

Its on a par with our worth a punt signings.

I am all for change, trust me, its obvious that change is needed.

But the change has to emulate those trouncing us. Not skirt around the problem.

We have to tackle it head on. Compete.

The very rugby ethos dictates that you fight for every inch, every inch lost is an inch gained by the opposition.

But the passive attitude towards the marketing of our league is pathetic.

This latest development sends out all the wrong signals. They wont support the league properly. They will just rearrange the deckchairs again, and leave the clubs struggle to make anything out of it.

The clubs themselves should be negotiating this, the unions should be kept out of it.

Oh and it would be a pleasant change for meetings to be held in Cardiff for once.

Or is Dublin some sort of Celtic rugby Mecca, and i never got the memo?


The Pro12 is based in London apparently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2017 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

It has been decided, some are being totally blinkered in their attitude, which they have the right to be, not necessarily right but it is a free world.

We hate change, and if anything should be learned from last season, is WE MUST CHANGE. We did last year and looked what happened.

A new league set up should be approached as a new challenge, and we adapt, both on and off the field, so we may not be happy but lets carry on and be the last team who won the Pro 12, and the first to win Pro 14
This smack of desperation, blind hope, and rolls of dice.

Its on a par with our worth a punt signings.

I am all for change, trust me, its obvious that change is needed.

But the change has to emulate those trouncing us. Not skirt around the problem.

We have to tackle it head on. Compete.

The very rugby ethos dictates that you fight for every inch, every inch lost is an inch gained by the opposition.

But the passive attitude towards the marketing of our league is pathetic.

This latest development sends out all the wrong signals. They wont support the league properly. They will just rearrange the deckchairs again, and leave the clubs struggle to make anything out of it.

The clubs themselves should be negotiating this, the unions should be kept out of it.

Oh and it would be a pleasant change for meetings to be held in Cardiff for once.

Or is Dublin some sort of Celtic rugby Mecca, and i never got the memo?
I believe Mark Davies, for PRW, is part of the TV negotiations now.
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Micro Duck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 9:08am
The value of a television deal to the commercial broadcaster is how much money they can generate off the back of it.

So for Sky and BT, that means how many subscriptions can they sell and how much can they charge advertisers to feature their products.

That will all be calculated into what they're willing to bid to screen a competition.

Some sports - particularly womens sports - have had to pay the tv companies to feature them, in order to gain exposure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

It has been decided, some are being totally blinkered in their attitude, which they have the right to be, not necessarily right but it is a free world.

We hate change, and if anything should be learned from last season, is WE MUST CHANGE. We did last year and looked what happened.

A new league set up should be approached as a new challenge, and we adapt, both on and off the field, so we may not be happy but lets carry on and be the last team who won the Pro 12, and the first to win Pro 14
This smack of desperation, blind hope, and rolls of dice.

Its on a par with our worth a punt signings.

I am all for change, trust me, its obvious that change is needed.

But the change has to emulate those trouncing us. Not skirt around the problem.

We have to tackle it head on. Compete.

The very rugby ethos dictates that you fight for every inch, every inch lost is an inch gained by the opposition.

But the passive attitude towards the marketing of our league is pathetic.

This latest development sends out all the wrong signals. They wont support the league properly. They will just rearrange the deckchairs again, and leave the clubs struggle to make anything out of it.

The clubs themselves should be negotiating this, the unions should be kept out of it.

Oh and it would be a pleasant change for meetings to be held in Cardiff for once.

Or is Dublin some sort of Celtic rugby Mecca, and i never got the memo?
I believe Mark Davies, for PRW, is part of the TV negotiations now.
Spot on. The negotiations are carried out by the Pro 12, consulting with representatives from each Union involved. PRW for us.
#George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 11:16am
PRW were unconvinced from the start that the SA expansion was feasible unless the additional revenues made it 'interesting' enough, and already set 'red lines' around the number of home games, protecting local derbies and delivering workable logistical plans.

It's great that they're sat at the table - they have the necessary commercial nous to drive the best deal for all, and will not sanction any plan which does not exceed the minimum criteria and requirements for the Welsh teams. The discussions may have been 'positive and advanced', but they're not yet concluded.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 11:46am
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

PRW were unconvinced from the start that the SA expansion was feasible unless the additional revenues made it 'interesting' enough, and already set 'red lines' around the number of home games, protecting local derbies and delivering workable logistical plans.

It's great that they're sat at the table - they have the necessary commercial nous to drive the best deal for all, and will not sanction any plan which does not exceed the minimum criteria and requirements for the Welsh teams. The discussions may have been 'positive and advanced', but they're not yet concluded.



What happens if PRW don't want the new Pro12 changes to go ahead, but IRFU, SRU and Italian Unions do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 12:07pm
War maybe but my gut feeling is that the unions have been kept informed, Duw helpa ni if they say no!!
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

PRW were unconvinced from the start that the SA expansion was feasible unless the additional revenues made it 'interesting' enough, and already set 'red lines' around the number of home games, protecting local derbies and delivering workable logistical plans.

It's great that they're sat at the table - they have the necessary commercial nous to drive the best deal for all, and will not sanction any plan which does not exceed the minimum criteria and requirements for the Welsh teams. The discussions may have been 'positive and advanced', but they're not yet concluded.



What happens if PRW don't want the new Pro12 changes to go ahead, but IRFU, SRU and Italian Unions do?
PRW are driving this expansion. They're the ones looking for revenue growth. The unions are on board because all the other teams are union owned so the money goes in their coffers
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

PRW were unconvinced from the start that the SA expansion was feasible unless the additional revenues made it 'interesting' enough, and already set 'red lines' around the number of home games, protecting local derbies and delivering workable logistical plans.

It's great that they're sat at the table - they have the necessary commercial nous to drive the best deal for all, and will not sanction any plan which does not exceed the minimum criteria and requirements for the Welsh teams. The discussions may have been 'positive and advanced', but they're not yet concluded.



What happens if PRW don't want the new Pro12 changes to go ahead, but IRFU, SRU and Italian Unions do?

All parties have to agree - I believe any of the partners can veto the plans, although I'm sure there'll be big pressure from the others having come this far. Handshake

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 5:57pm
Its too much random change at once. Its very risky. Bring the SA teams in by all means, But keep the format.

It would all be a lot easier if the wru would realise they`ve milked the autumn internationals as much as they can now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Its too much random change at once. Its very risky. Bring the SA teams in by all means, But keep the format.

It would all be a lot easier if the wru would realise they`ve milked the autumn internationals as much as they can now.


That's never going to change really though is it. It's like asking the WRU if they'd like to earn £4m every November or £3m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2017 at 7:46pm
Wheres all the wonga gone then? We win the league in style, several of our boys go on to roaring successes with the lions and Wales and suddenly they come home to find the league has been split asunder by the money men? This reminds me of rocky 4 ,when balboa beats the big russian and flies home from Moscow. only to find that layabout paulie has pawned off all his title belts

Edited by roy munster - 21 July 2017 at 7:47pm
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vulcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2017 at 12:44am
I cannot see a problem with a 14 team league. It works ok in France, it would seem to be acceptable to most of SF posters so for GS put it into place so I can go into Morriston for my AVR operation in 2 weeks time looking forward to a settled defence of our "PRO12/14" when I come back home.

Hopefully BT will have sorted my wifi probs by thenAngry


Edited by Vulcan - 22 July 2017 at 12:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2017 at 7:23am
In this day in and age, surely they could conduct a quick poll from fans and season ticket holders on which format they would prefer for the new system?
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