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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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There you go again quoting figures and making false assumptions about Airbus.
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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You really should learn to quote people accurately. I did not try to defend the leave campaigners for overstating the net savings of Brexit, indeed I did the exact opposite. I understand Sospan that facts really can get in the way of a good argument but really......... You confirm that you feel we get good value for the 8.6 billion net contribution - thats your prerogative. Other contributors on here like Roy & myself do not. I voted leave because I firmly believe that we can make a far better fist of our economy when we strip away the costly layers of beaurocracy and regulation. I also believe we should set our own laws and make our own decisions. Finally I also believe we should control our own borders. Now I, unlike you, cannot predict what the final deal will look like. What I can say is that the economic aramageddon predicted by many remainers has not happened. Indeed the FTSE has rallied to near record levels, we have record numbers of people in employment and foreign inward investment is running at/around all time highs.
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Rob o'r Bont
Veteran Dr. Optimist Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: Bont Status: Online Points: 14625 |
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Can anyone explain what the benefits of leaving the EU are? Every respectable assessment has shown that its bad economically for the UK in the short term (next 5 years or so), and the long term predictions are mixed, some saying it will be good some saying it will be bad, but nobody really knows.
So what's the point of leaving if things are going to be worse for us.
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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SospanMawr
Veteran Joined: 03 April 2013 Location: The North Stand Status: Offline Points: 10035 |
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I know it makes you uncomfortable. |
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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You really are priceless - clearly I have no doubt as to the accuracy of the figures quoted; its the insinuation that those jobs and tax revenues will be lost which is very misleading as you well know. All of us will have ample time post Brexit to revisit our thoughts.
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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OK clearly sparking off clashes. GPR + Roy what do you see as the good about Brexit and the benefits it may bring to the UK?
I think we as a country are suffering from this divide and lack of clarity. In someways I wish there had been a better Leave PR post-referendum; to actually give me confidence it wouldn't be a total [beep]up and even hope that certain things would improve. As it is, we're stuck in this back and forth arguing over quoted numbers, semantics (I never even knew what "hard" and "soft" Brexit meant!), and political power struggles with a PM and cabinet I perceive to be weak and struggling to keep their own party in order with limited political opposition. There must be something bigger at the heart of this divide than this - even as basic as being pro or anti Europe or immigration or whatever, the latter Brexit seemingly will have negligible impact on anyway. Maybe the idea behind Brexit is to make Britain a less attractive country to live in it to drive away current EU immigrants and put off future ones then it may well turn out to be quite successful (that's a joke BTW, I realise now we "remoaners" used this brush way too heavily before).
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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Oh [beep]ing hell, and I just read that Vinnie Paul has died. What a poo day. Pantera re-defined metal.
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Ffidel Bennett
Veteran Joined: 31 August 2014 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 6306 |
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Brexit's greatest support comes from the poorest areas. This is what you'd expect as the main purpose of the EU is to facilitate "the free movement of Capital and Labour" for those states deemed suitable to join. As the poorer members of society are more likely to be in debt rather than be over-endowed with surplus capital that is crying out to be invested for profit. On the other hand the free movement of Labour is far more likely to effect peoples' lives as it could mean being replaced by someone desperate for a wage under any circumstance and who will work for less and under worse conditions. Even if a worker doesn't lose his/her job, the overall effect is to keep down wages and worsen conditions. So the large influx of workers from the likes of Poland where absolute pay is a lot lower and doesn't exactly endear the EU to those whose only source of income is selling their labour on the open market.
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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We have already answered this but here goes again. To date the economy has overall grown stronger since brexit ...Youve only got to look at the massive gains in the ftse 100 250 and 350....all of which have grown in value by an enormous 27+% The steel industry has boomed, the unemployment market has boomed, wages have grown WAY WAY beyond predictions. All the predictions of massive economic collapse were NOT just for after we officially leave but were predicted the day we voted to leave. ALL of these predictions were from massive corporations and the bank of england and other power players like george osbournes. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WERE OBSCENELY WRONG. predictions were literally billions out
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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John
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4995 |
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The benefits of leaving the EU are that our own parliaments will be able to make our own laws. Upon which magnificent argument rests the glorious assumption that all laws emanating from Westminster are universally fantastic and that the AMs in the Senedd could stop squabbling (mostly with members of their own parties and leaving or being chucked out of said party) for long enough to pass any law at all And as we pass our own laws whilst trading with all other countries in the world, we can neglect the fact that they all have standards which our manufacturers will have to abide by. These other countries are of course absolutely desperate for our products and will be happy to whack in enormous orders on the first day we leave the EU, thus obviating the need for any redundancies at all. There is also the argument that the EU introduces over-bureaucratic legislation at every turn. As a sheep farmer, I am well aware of this and I am also well aware of the feeling of being made to feel like a criminal because some sheep have gone walk-about at a vital moment of random inspection or because I filled a form in wrongly. And try telling a sheep that it is critical that it keeps the two tags in its ears. I have and it doesn't listen. The problem is that the civil servants, fearing losing their jobs post Brexit, are busy devising even more complicated schemes and controls, so ever more inspections to inspect some aspect of the farm. All the time importing cheap tariff-free food from countries with lower environmental standards and food standards. Exporting environmental damage of food production is a big benefit of leaving the EU according to the great prophet Rees-Mogg Come on everybody, it is bright new world we're entering here- a world where pesky human rights legislation can be done away with, where our exports rise exponentially, where we can forever more be British...... |
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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Funny how the poor farmers , sitting on their vast acreage have always been pleading poverty and blaming it all on the EU for decades, but when the vote came they voted the other way. From that moment onwards their demands and complaints about the EU are taken about as seriously as alan partridges views on agriculture
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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M.M.
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 7851 |
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Why any Welsh person votes with the Home Counties is beyond me.
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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They dont they vote with their own minds and conscience
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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M.M.
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 7851 |
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Sorry, Roy. I don't see it like that.
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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London voted remain, home counties voted brexit. The whole fixation over whether Wales voted in a similar pattern to the home counties doesnt seem relevant. If wales had voted remain would you have felt perturbed wales had followed the same pattern as the London city slickers? Everyone voted for different reasons.
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Rob o'r Bont
Veteran Dr. Optimist Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: Bont Status: Online Points: 14625 |
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Roy, I could agree with you........... but then we would both be wrong. Don't forget that we haven't actually left the EU yet so the effect of any deal has not yet taken place. We are still operating under the conditions of remain. However, the governor of the Bank of England has just come out last month and said households are already about £900 worse off after the leave vote. But like I said above, all the respected predictions on both sides of the argument agree that the UK economy will be worse off for at east the next 5 years. Beyond 5 years nobody really knows one way or the other. This is the headline figure I would like to get over - All respected studies predict that the UK economy will be worse off in at least the next 5 years beyond Brexit. The notion that Brexit will bring prosperity to the UK is a false one. |
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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