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    Posted: 03 October 2019 at 2:40pm
So, following on (formatting obliges me to write a 'new comment to add to the above) it seems that:

1. the description of the 'hand off' as being 'with the palm of the hand' has not changed AT ALL since I started playing in the 1960s, so the Aussie fend immediately fails this test as it was done with the fist/wrist/forearm,and 

2. it becomes foul play if 'excessive force' is used - that of course is a can of worms as it is open to interpretation, though I'd be of the view that the Aussie fend on Patch fails this test, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2019 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GreyScarlet GreyScarlet wrote:

I looked at the Law on the 'hand off' .  Basically there is no definition of what is legal or illegal. This surely is something that needs to be addressed, as the interpretation for years was that it had to be an open hand leading the hand off.

I feel that if this was specified in the law it could be a major help to referees.




I, certainly from being penalised when playing last season (albeit at lower league), was under the impression if you hand off it must be with a straight arm. I.e. you can't go in for a hand off if your arm is bent & you then straighten it into the face/body of a would be tackler. 

Following on from this, I googled 'laws of RU' and came up with this definition:S
Hand-off: A permitted action, taken by a ball-carrier to fend off an opponent, using the palm of the hand.

And within 'clarifications', I found this: Law 9: Foul play
A ball-carrier is permitted to hand off an opponent provided excessive force is not used.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2019 at 8:44am
Originally posted by GreyScarlet GreyScarlet wrote:

I looked at the Law on the 'hand off' .  Basically there is no definition of what is legal or illegal. This surely is something that needs to be addressed, as the interpretation for years was that it had to be an open hand leading the hand off.

I feel that if this was specified in the law it could be a major help to referees.




I, certainly from being penalised when playing last season (albeit at lower league), was under the impression if you hand off it must be with a straight arm. I.e. you can't go in for a hand off if your arm is bent & you then straighten it into the face/body of a would be tackler. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2019 at 8:16am
Cheika in his playing days was an uncompromising enforcer at No 6 I believe. He hasn't really learned the art of supporting his players but also facing reality. It also doesn't appear that he tells it as it is behind closed doors if the constant bleating is anything to go by. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2019 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

The comparison with the Kieron Fonotia ban has made this morning’s Times. Owen Slot, chief rugby correspondent, mentions it in some depth.

Suspect he picked it up from Twitter rather than Scarlet Fever, unless tipped off by someone on WOL.

I'd like to believe it was from here. We should see a story about Cheika's cynical thuggish coaching soon as well and his irritating high pitched whining that they didn't even know the rules in the first place. A head coach does stamp his own style on a team I suppose.

Not quite sure I'd say that to him in person, mind, as he's a bit bigger than me and I'd go the way of Halfpenny, Biggar, Patchell...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2019 at 9:17pm
I like most of the Aussies I’ve met.

However, their rugby team seems to be lead by a combination of negligence and laziness from those in charge.

They’re a far cry from those I’ve met in other sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2019 at 8:58pm
i remeber price in late 70s hit from behind by an aussue plys hill getting elbowed by an aussie in lions 2001 and ogara vs nsw. Cheap shot fanny merchants bit like sunday glad we beat these cheating whingers. I recall their bleating in 89 and 2013 when the lions gave them some whacks back. Nothing changes i caN’t stick them

Edited by RR1972 - 02 October 2019 at 9:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2019 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

The comparison with the Kieron Fonotia ban has made this morning’s Times. Owen Slot, chief rugby correspondent, mentions it in some depth.

Suspect he picked it up from Twitter rather than Scarlet Fever, unless tipped off by someone on WOL.
Lol mentioned that to a few people on Sunday, if if it made contact at first with the chest it still rode up exactly the same as the fonotia north incident. But yea the wallabies were hard done by lol! The aftermath interview with those two was highly embarrassing what a pair of arseholes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2019 at 4:36pm
The comparison with the Kieron Fonotia ban has made this morning’s Times. Owen Slot, chief rugby correspondent, mentions it in some depth.

Suspect he picked it up from Twitter rather than Scarlet Fever, unless tipped off by someone on WOL.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2019 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

They may well have targeted Biggar. They dropped Beale from the starting 15 because of concerns about his ability under the high ball. They picked a back 3 who could deal with Biggar's kicking. 

The Fijian 7 taken out was the try scorer and playing really well, I heard. 10s will always be targeted, yes, but we're seeing deliberate late hits or foul play. I'm gonna say it: they're dirty.

Watched the highlights again last night - Hooper made a conscious decision to shoulder charge Biggar after he'd passed, to take him out of the next play (if I was more cynical, I'd think he was also trying to maliciously target the opposition 10), he didn't even move until Dan had released the ball.

Watching the Wallaby press conference, it seems clear that this approach comes directly from the head coach - hypocritical Hooper claimed he couldn't pull out of the challenge (which still wouldn't excuse the fact that it was high and with no attempt to wrap), while Cheika claimed not to know the tackle laws any more.

Added to their embarrassing defence of Kerevi's carry technique (he's the player whose late & dangerous shoulder-charge flattened Halfpenny last year, ruining Leigh's season, don't forget), hooker Latu taking out Tipuric off the ball to set up their first try, and Reece Hodge's confession that they hadn't been coached in the latest World Rugby tackle height directives, and you have a team with a win-at-all-costs mentality who can't deal with losing when that approach fails.

A fish rots at the head, and an otherwise talented and exciting squad of Wallabies is being let down by their leader. Makes the win all the more satisfying, tbh, especially as Wales appear not to have suffered any serious injuries. On to Fiji...

Spot on!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2019 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

They may well have targeted Biggar. They dropped Beale from the starting 15 because of concerns about his ability under the high ball. They picked a back 3 who could deal with Biggar's kicking. 

The Fijian 7 taken out was the try scorer and playing really well, I heard. 10s will always be targeted, yes, but we're seeing deliberate late hits or foul play. I'm gonna say it: they're dirty.

Watched the highlights again last night - Hooper made a conscious decision to shoulder charge Biggar after he'd passed, to take him out of the next play (if I was more cynical, I'd think he was also trying to maliciously target the opposition 10), he didn't even move until Dan had released the ball.

Watching the Wallaby press conference, it seems clear that this approach comes directly from the head coach - hypocritical Hooper claimed he couldn't pull out of the challenge (which still wouldn't excuse the fact that it was high and with no attempt to wrap), while Cheika claimed not to know the tackle laws any more.

Added to their embarrassing defence of Kerevi's carry technique (he's the player whose late & dangerous shoulder-charge flattened Halfpenny last year, ruining Leigh's season, don't forget), hooker Latu taking out Tipuric off the ball to set up their first try, and Reece Hodge's confession that they hadn't been coached in the latest World Rugby tackle height directives, and you have a team with a win-at-all-costs mentality who can't deal with losing when that approach fails. It wouldn't surprise me to discover they had sandpaper sewn into their pockets, too. Shocked

A fish rots at the head, and an otherwise talented and exciting squad of Wallabies is being let down by their leader. Makes the win all the more satisfying, tbh, especially as Wales appear not to have suffered any serious injuries. On to Fiji...


Edited by NobbySosban - 01 October 2019 at 1:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2019 at 8:16am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

They may well have targeted Biggar. They dropped Beale from the starting 15 because of concerns about his ability under the high ball. They picked a back 3 who could deal with Biggar's kicking. 

The Fijian 7 taken out was the try scorer and playing really well, I heard. 10s will always be targeted, yes, but we're seeing deliberate late hits or foul play. I'm gonna say it: they're dirty.

Yato the Fijian 7 was indeed having a storming game. I don't see Hodge's tackle as targeting - he was just in the wrong position to make an effective tackle. Kerevi on Halfpenny & Patchell were borderline targeting whilst Hooper was a definite target and cheap shot on a player who had passed the ball. He definitely had plenty of time to pull out of the challenge. I am amazed he has not been cited. Perhaps the smokescreen put up by Cheika & Co. post game has had the desired effect. 

Either way a QF between Aus & England would be a very interesting affair. Kerevi for all his dodgy tendencies is the most effective 12 in this tournament and I would love to see him running at Farrell. For both of them to stay on the field for the full 80 would be a miracle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2019 at 8:06am
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

They may well have targeted Biggar. They dropped Beale from the starting 15 because of concerns about his ability under the high ball. They picked a back 3 who could deal with Biggar's kicking. 

The Fijian 7 taken out was the try scorer and playing really well, I heard. 10s will always be targeted, yes, but we're seeing deliberate late hits or foul play. I'm gonna say it: they're dirty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2019 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Halfpenny lack of decision is possibly one of the worst I've seen considering access to video, replies and citing panels. It's genuinely unbelievable and cost Halfpenny a lot of his season.

And then Australia have also had a player banned this WC for a late hit. Cheika's right if he says the ref was poor because they should have had two off. His team's happy to take cheap shots, everyone can see it. And note the players his team's taken out: Halfpenny, Biggar, Patchell. Just coincidence or were they targeted?

I want to see Australia meet England just for seeing Farrell's technique against Kerevi's running. 
I wasn’t going to bother watching that match, assuming Eng beat Fra and Arg.

Then I read your last sentence.Big smileLOLBig smileLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2019 at 8:25pm
They may well have targeted Biggar. They dropped Beale from the starting 15 because of concerns about his ability under the high ball. They picked a back 3 who could deal with Biggar's kicking. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 September 2019 at 8:07pm
The Halfpenny lack of decision is possibly one of the worst I've seen considering access to video, replies and citing panels. It's genuinely unbelievable and cost Halfpenny a lot of his season.

And then Australia have also had a player banned this WC for a late hit. Cheika's right if he says the ref was poor because they should have had two off. His team's happy to take cheap shots, everyone can see it. And note the players his team's taken out: Halfpenny, Biggar, Patchell. Just coincidence or were they targeted?

I want to see Australia meet England just for seeing Farrell's technique against Kerevi's running. 
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