Pivac on Steff, Adams and Cubby |
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50980 |
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Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes it does both or neither.
If clubs can’t predict the future likely prospects of a player what the hell is the purpose of a development pathway and an academy...? |
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stradeyscarlet72
Senior Member Joined: 24 November 2018 Location: pembrokeshire Status: Offline Points: 497 |
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Two big bonuses for us , are that Pivac is going to Coach Wales and will want form players so will influence them and as he's clearly enjoyed his time here - he appears to be very loyal and wants the Scarlet brand of rugby to continue .
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ScarletBear
Veteran Joined: 25 May 2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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I have that feeling too. He is our best #9 in Wales.
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Scarlets before Wales
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Huwbach
Veteran Joined: 20 January 2007 Location: underthebridge Status: Offline Points: 5126 |
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IMO Cawdor is number 1 but a great problem to have. |
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Why
Veteran Joined: 22 August 2010 Status: Online Points: 8738 |
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Some players develop at different ages we didn’t think Josh was finished article. Worcester also didn’t think he was as they loaned him out. They possibly could afford to keep him at the time we didn’t have that much spare cash at the time. Also some players will slip through the net Halfpenny and Sanjay being two in the Osprey region. Our record of developing young local talent that has gone on to play for Wales is very good. We have probably supplied more local players to play for the other three regions than anyone else. |
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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Ainremixed
Newbie Joined: 29 November 2018 Location: Tywyn Bach Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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FWIW - Interview with Josh Adams, BBC Rugby Unioin website 10th January 2018 - "
It's Adams third season at Worcester after he left the Scarlets Academy in 2015 where he came through the ranks in Llanelli. "With the competition in the Scarlets back three at the time, there was not an opportunity there," said Adams. "I could not see myself progressing into the senior squad. "The decision was made to explore new pastures, I came across to Worcester and have enjoyed my time here." Adams did not make an instant impression with loan spells at Cinderford and Nottingham. "It (the move) was a blessing in disguise," he added. "The change in scenery freshened me up and I realised the hard work I had to put in. "I was probably the last wing on the roster for selection. You have to earn that respect before you get out on the field in the Premiership." |
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Ainremixed
Newbie Joined: 29 November 2018 Location: Tywyn Bach Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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Should also have said, he doesn't seem to be bare any grudges.
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diego6754
Veteran Joined: 09 June 2011 Location: Neyland Status: Offline Points: 1372 |
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Exactly what I was going to say. People in all walks of life develop both mentally and physically at different points and ages. Some times it is a natural progression, some times it takes a kick up the back side! He was obviously not ready for first team rugby at the time as when he went to Worcester he was loaned out to Cinderford and Nottingham in the first season. At the end of the day as I understand it he wasn't booted out of the development system he was told he had to spend another year with the RFC then things would be reassessed, he chose not to do that and move on. He has since blossomed. Everything I have read and listened to points to the fact he doesn't hold a grudge and probably realises that, actually he wasn't ready at the time.
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50980 |
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So I'm struggling to get this point across.
At the time (and you can check back on my posts) it was a fact that we had no measure of his true ability to make it in the pro game in place, and what we did have was somehow ignored...he made 1 sub appearance for the Scarlets .. this after scoring 4 tries in 5 matches for Wales U20's at that Summer's World Cup ( a decent benchmark of ability). I'm not sure you know how much a player gets for being in the Academy and playing for Llanelli at age 20 ( it's not much of a living by the way) versus how much he got on a pro deal for Worcester when playing for their 2nd team Nottingham etc? We chose not to retain his services as a pro player, he tried his hand elsewhere, did well, we made an error. From the Warriors website... The paceman joined the Warriors Academy from Llanelli Scarlets in late 2015 after a fine showing at the World Rugby Under 20 Championship, where he scored four tries in five starts. During the tournament Adams scored a double in a 66-3 win over Japan, before crossing the whitewash against Ireland and Australia. Adams impressed in his first senior outing for Warriors, scoring in a pre-season match against Saracens at Bramley Road in 2015 and continued his development with spells at Cinderford during the 2015/16 campaign and Nottingham at the start of the 2016/17 season. He also impressed for Worcester Cavaliers before the first-team came calling. |
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50980 |
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Additional...I'm not sure where baring grudges comes in to it. History is history however.
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diego6754
Veteran Joined: 09 June 2011 Location: Neyland Status: Offline Points: 1372 |
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This is where bearing grudges came from. If you think it is a factor in his decision then you defacto think he is bearing a grudge. I don't think anyone is denying we made a mistake and you in your comments at the time were absolutely spot on but I don't think it will be a factor in his choice of region, in fact he said in his departing interview which is on the BBC website that he would never rule out coming back to the Scarlets and that over the two and a half years he was here we were good to him an he enjoyed his time. He's also a local boy. In general I think our talent retention is pretty on point, we've released a lot of youngsters some of whom got the chance of first team experience others didn't. The majority, in hindsight it seems we made good decisions, every club is going to have one or two who slip through the net. Budget dictates you can't keep everyone to see if they make a leap.
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NobbySosban
Veteran Joined: 30 June 2010 Location: Sir Berk Status: Offline Points: 6278 |
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My reading of it...
Josh was told he'd need to bide his time to get into the 1st team - as an ambitious and confident teenager, he chose to take his chances elsewhere, thinking he'd get 1st team rugby with Worcester. Once there, he effectively got a 'second opinion' from the Warriors which coincided with what he was told at the Scarlets - that he'd need to graft away in the lower levels and prove his worth to the top level squad. Having been told this a second time, he duly knuckled down and earned his place in the 1st team. He's arguably reached the same level as he would have done if he'd stayed and grafted in Llanelli, indeed he may even have got a big chance sooner (or not - who knows?) - Worcester have reaped the benefit of his improvement (and fair play, they've invested & helped him develop), and Josh will have been paid quite a few more quids for the last couple of seasons than if he'd stayed, no doubt, but he now needs to return to Wales if he wants to continue his international career. It's his move. Scarlets missed out on him, but it still doesn't seem an unreasonable decision to have 'let him go' when he was demanding 1st team rugby. And who's to say Steff Evs would've broken through if Josh had been the incumbent winger? If 'if's and 'and's were pots and sospans...
Edited by NobbySosban - 29 November 2018 at 11:30am |
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Wil Chips
Rambler Joined: 23 August 2009 Location: Pembs Status: Offline Points: 50980 |
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I'll never really understand that kind of logic, at that point we had Steff just starting to make a noise, but other than that we hadn't produced a home grown winger since North ( had the unfortunate Harry Robinson and Taginakcibau on the books).
The point of nurturing talent up to the point of a development or pro deal, and then not offering them a pro deal is always going to be lost on me...at 16/17/18 I get it, but at 20, not so much. In my view Worcester just did what we chose not to do. In turn we brought in Tom Williams. PS A factor is not a grudge by the way...don't understand that at all. Edited by Wil Chips - 29 November 2018 at 11:53am |
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Rich (Bris)
Veteran Joined: 23 August 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1507 |
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Yes and Toulon have recent history of letting players leave contracts early if they want to - just one example is Chris Ashton, who was great for them and top try scorer in the league but they let him go early with little fuss after just one year so he could play in England and therefore hopefully get into the RWC squad. Can't see why they won't do this for Rhys. I'm pretty certain Rhys will be back if he wants to come back BUT if he thinks Gareth and Tomos Williams will be in front of him then he may decide to stay with the money. He may sign a one year deal with a region (and he won't play too much next season due to RWC and Six Nations) and then perhaps rejoin Toulon if they want him. |
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 11410 |
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Can't see it happening, but I wonder what would happen if Toulon were to send him out on loan to a Welsh Region next season ?
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Dai38
Veteran Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: Llanelli Status: Offline Points: 2883 |
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Welsh regions don't have the same money as Sales etc, Toulon did not want him to go, but with Ashton's wife/English prospects/Ashton wish, they left him go for a fee.
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Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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