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Scarlets team vs London Irish (a)

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Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 3:44pm
Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.
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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

.........8 times in the centre, 8 times in the back 3.


Now, for me, this was when he was playing some of his best rugby, from 2014-2016ish. No doubt because he was younger, fitter, and hungrier. But he played his best rugby as a utility back for the Scarlets, and perhaps some short memories are forgetting this. The trend was he played 12 with Regan King outside him, but when Scott Williams played, he moved to 13. And he was also seen as a useful utility sub or safe winger. I COULD check all the stats from the next season as well, but it is my memory - and it's served me pretty well so far - that it really only coincided with the last few weeks of the 16/17 season that Parkes was seen as anything but a versatile centre, and only when Gatland came along in the autumn of that year that he became an out and out 12, and I think everyone agrees this is when his performances dropped.
Forget about the stats because they really don't support the argument that Parkes is a better utility back than an out-and-out center, they really don't. Parkes has played across the backline from neccessity; from the needs of the squad; not from where his best position is or where he is better utilised.  

His time at 10 for instance had nothing to do with him being versatile enough to play 10 but more to do with him being the least worst option to play 10.  Calling Parkes a utility player cos he could play other positions is like calling Phil Bennet a utility player cos he could play 15 from time to time.

Spot on.Parkes arrived as a centre.Pivac inherited a squad with big deficiencies-particularly on the wing.Until the emergence of Steff Evans,and the signing of Van der Merwe and Mcnicholl,the cupboard was pretty bare.Parkes played there out of necessity,and let nobody down.
Any debate about Parkes should focus on how he currently performs in the centre.


It's definitely not spot on. Parkes played on the wing well in to the second season and was shifted between 12 and 13 regularly, which he isn't anymore. Nothing spot on about that assessment. Pivac lost faith in Gareth Owen and changed the two players' roles around, with Owen moving out to the wing from 12, and then obviously leaving the club.

You could just as easily make the case that Parkes was playing centre 'because the cupboard was bare'.

It is literally true that Parkes is playing 12 (and 12 only) for Wales and now the Scarlets because the cupboard is very bare in this position, not just in the region, but across the country.

Why misread the past so badly for the sake of the present?

Owen was always viewed as an utility back,didn't leave until 2017.Above all else,Parkes was Pivac's man-someone he knew and trusted in a new and-to begin with-probably hostile environment.I'm bored with this now tbh.What should be talking about is Parkes'present,not his past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.

Rob take it from - don't waste your time. I agree with you 100% & frankly I cannot think of anyone in the Scarlets current squad who could be classed as a utility back. For clarity that means to me someone who is proficient enough in more than 2 positions to be considered as a starter in that role. My best option - Asquith. Of course James Hook took the term to another level able to play at test level at 10, 12, 13 & 15 which is one hell of an achievement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 4:10pm
Utility players aren't really a thing anymore. Professional sport seems to make that role redundant (happened with football too). With expanding budgets, you don't need to pay someone to do two jobs ok. You get two people who do the job well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Another top bit of trolling by Dic to get everyone worked up into a lather.
This "trolling"nonsense is getting tedious now.Is that all you can muster?
You’re the one who suggested that a current Welsh international and former Welsh age grade captain, who has won numerous plaudits in the media and on this forum for his form this season, are the “least effective” centre pairing you’ve seen since 1980 - despite us being 2nd in the league conference and in a European quarter final.

Yes I made that suggestion-and I've yet to change my mind.What I believe is based on what I see,and what I remember seeing in the past.You,on the other hand,seem to base your views upon the judgement of others,whether they are coaches,journalists or people on here.I say what I see,whereas you tell me what you've heard.On Saturday,I saw Baldwin put in another performance worthy of a starting spot in his preferred position.Asquith again played well,as usual.I believe that both these players should be given a start.
I don't remember a single occasion this season when Parkes and Hughes have moved the ball through the hands to put the wing away for a try-the midfield play is slow and laboured.Yes we are winning,and I'm glad of that.Will we win trophies?Unless there's a change in selection,I very much doubt it.
By the way,age grade honours are pretty meaningless and irrelevant when it comes to assessing a player's ability.
If you don't agree with me,then at least argue the toss.

Seems like you’ve confused effectiveness with creativity. Are Parkes and Hughes an effective centre pairing? Yes - they make few mistakes, tackle well, give us go forward ball and are experienced heads with inexperienced players both inside and outside them. 
Are they creative? Do they “move the ball through the hands to put the wing away”? (As if pro rugby is anywhere near that simple). No. But I can recall at least two tries we’ve scored from Steff Hughes’ kicking game.

You can’t actually believe the bit in bold? I can’t think of many players who have contributed for us this year who didn’t get significant age grade honours. Wyn Jones is the exception.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.

Parkes is a 12, no doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Utility players aren't really a thing anymore. Professional sport seems to make that role redundant (happened with football too). With expanding budgets, you don't need to pay someone to do two jobs ok. You get two people who do the job well.

Its more relevant in a World Cup, I'll give you that, but they still exist.

Pivac looking at Hill as a 5/6 option.
Holmes and Amos as a 11/14/15.
Farrell as a 10/12.
Wyn Jones as 1/3 - not best example granted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Feverpitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 5:38pm
Wait for it, I'm sure Miaow would like the last word !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Yes very true. I do wonder if Gatland's beasting of the players actually backfired during the World Cup. Against S. Africa we looked jaded and out on our feet. That combined with playing Foxy who was clearly not fit led to us losing that game. Even AWJ was reduced to walking between set pieces which is very rare. 

It's happened in the last three World Cups although injuries have been a major  factor and got all the blame. Definitely something that needs a bit of a rethink before the next world cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 6:08pm
Agree to disagree springs to mind!!
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miaow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.


That's not what I've seen. The stats support that. Utility back in the first season (only missed first 3 months, so not halfway through, played the other 6 months), then started the 15/16 season as a winger again with Owen at 12, before Owen get demoted to wing and then bench and then out of the 23 with Parkes taking over the 12 shirt with Scott injured.

Next season, title winning season, played 12 and 13.

If Wayne sat down and signed Parkes to be a Jamie Roberts for the Scarlets back in 2014, it's strange how he barely used him that way until injury and then Gatland forced the issue.

I have to be honest, despite what you say, I don't see it. Parkes was probably signed as a centre who could fill in and do a job around the backline as a bonus, and ultimately replace Regan King as a more solid option. But signed as a 12? In the way he's being used now? Back in 2014? It's strange it took 3 years for that to happen tbh - and coincided with him qualifying for Wales...
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miaow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.

Rob take it from - don't waste your time. I agree with you 100% & frankly I cannot think of anyone in the Scarlets current squad who could be classed as a utility back. For clarity that means to me someone who is proficient enough in more than 2 positions to be considered as a starter in that role. My best option - Asquith. Of course James Hook took the term to another level able to play at test level at 10, 12, 13 & 15 which is one hell of an achievement. 


I wish you hadn't wasted your time tbh.

Asquith is obviously a utility back.

In fact, wasn't it you who said that earlier? Apologies if not, but would explain that you're just making it up as you go along tbh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.

Parkes is a 12, no doubt.


Now? Yes. And barely tbh, particularly for Wales. He's hanging on to a test career in all honesty.

4 years ago? No.
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Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Miaow mate, take it from me and a few others who know better than I do  - Parkes was brought in as a centre more in the Jamie Roberts mold than Gavin Henson.  There was a certain Scott Williams playing 12 at the time so he was unlikley to nail the position down; but that's what he was and is - a 12.


That's not what I've seen. The stats support that. Utility back in the first season (only missed first 3 months, so not halfway through, played the other 6 months), then started the 15/16 season as a winger again with Owen at 12, before Owen get demoted to wing and then bench and then out of the 23 with Parkes taking over the 12 shirt with Scott injured.

Next season, title winning season, played 12 and 13.

If Wayne sat down and signed Parkes to be a Jamie Roberts for the Scarlets back in 2014, it's strange how he barely used him that way until injury and then Gatland forced the issue.

I have to be honest, despite what you say, I don't see it. Parkes was probably signed as a centre who could fill in and do a job around the backline as a bonus, and ultimately replace Regan King as a more solid option. But signed as a 12? In the way he's being used now? Back in 2014? It's strange it took 3 years for that to happen tbh - and coincided with him qualifying for Wales...
Seeing your a stats man and a google fan, have you thought of researching his career before he came to Wales and maybe read a few of the press cuttings stating how Pivac was bringing him in as a hard hitting hard tackling centre. Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 8:09pm
Having been to Reading at the weekend, a few will have noticed the Oracle.

In case you didn’t travel there, or notice it on the prevalent cloud nine mood, it’s a building/landmark and is widely signposted.

It would be good to be able to ask the Oracle, a currently lapsed poster on here. 

He was the font of much knowledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Llanelliman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 8:26pm
Why are we wasting so much money on Brad Mooar and his colleagues when there are so many wonderful coaches who already support the Scarlets ? Go on . . . apply for Brad's position and sack the rest . . . . . think of the money we could save our wonderful club with such wonderful coaching talent already on our doorstep. The silverware that we could win would need a stadium of its own !
Noticeably, these latent coaches are also the ones who spout excessive amounts of vitriol, when we lose, 3 games on the bounce at the beginning of the season !!!! 
And decry an apology for their moaning, when things suddenly look wonderfully rosy, expecting a full warm welcome into the fold, as if their complaints will be forgotten. 
They do indeed have vast amounts of rugby knowledge and an even more excessive amount of hot air !!!!!! 
And obviously too much time on their hands !!
(They [and we all] know who they are . . . . . they'll be the ones vehemently criticising my post, demanding of the 'guardians of Scarlet Fever' that the post be removed or that it is in the wrong 'section' and should be isolated in some other, more obscure corner of the site !)
You're giving me a headache. Go take the dog for a walk, stop moaning and enjoy the success. We're doing well. Keep supporting them and see what happens. 
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