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greypower1
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 10:44am |
Can someone explain to me the rationale of allowing tens of thousands of passengers from all over the world to land in the country's airports every day without any screening ☹️☹️
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dr_martinov
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 11:12am |
A cheapish, reliable test will make a big difference. Although it won't be the solution, it will enable much more efficient containment and even a possibility of those negative (or who have already had the disease) to return to work.
Compare the situation in South Korea to the USA. Each country had their first case of Covid19 on the same day and then look at the stats now. S. Korea tested heavily and imposed strict movement restrictions, USA did not. Of course, Trump doesn't have a clue, sends mixed, rambling messages, prefers to spend his time insulting his own governors, has ostracised the scientific community and has driven anyone with half a brain far away from his staff (or simply sacked them for demonstrating intelligence). Boris - to his credit - stepped back, although the UK has seemed a bit slow on the testing front. The restrictions and when they were implemented I agree with, although was disappointed some ignored them.
I think we're looking at France as a few days ahead of us and trying to avoid an Italy/Spain overwhelming of the NHS situation.
A word of caution with stats and the media: we are much better able to visualise numbers such as 100s and 1000s while we cannot easily imagine hundreds of 1000s, let alone millions or greater. Meaning in this situation as total cases get higher and higher, particularly as testing increases, we are going to end up focusing on those serious cases, which are much lower numbers but ones we can actually picture. It is also inevitable that we will focus on human interest stories and the media (BBC especially) makes a lot of its income of this style of reporting, not to mention the impact social media is having for this aspect. We all want information hour-by-hour, and as much as anyone I have an intrinsic need for data, but this can be an overload. All I am saying is keep these points in mind if you feel it gets overwhelming and look out for your own mental health and that of your families.
I am confident a vaccine WILL be developed and that will greatly limit the threat of this virus. As it is a global effort I think this will end this. We need time, however, and have to get through the next few weeks together.
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Eastern outpost
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 11:43am |
With some younger people, with no prior known health issues, losing their lives from this virus, it would be interesting to know how much time/effort is going into checking if they did have issues or not.
Anyone know?
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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ladram
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Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 12:20pm |
greypower1 wrote:
Can someone explain to me the rationale of allowing tens of thousands of passengers from all over the world to land in the country's airports every day without any screening ☹️☹️
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the same rationale that allowed 60,000 mainly posh people to attend Cheltenham for 4 days and 1000's of people crammed into motorpoint for stereophonics concert the same week.
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greypower1
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 12:59pm |
At least those were "one off" events. The planes are still landing at Heathrow with alarming regularity and disgorging their human cargo into our locked down island. 😱😈
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Wil Chips
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 1:15pm |
The UK is hardly locked down. Where they are coming from probably is.
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Wil Chips
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 1:16pm |
dr_martinov wrote:
A cheapish, reliable test will make a big difference. Although it won't be the solution, it will enable much more efficient containment and even a possibility of those negative (or who have already had the disease) to return to work.
Compare the situation in South Korea to the USA. Each country had their first case of Covid19 on the same day and then look at the stats now. S. Korea tested heavily and imposed strict movement restrictions, USA did not. Of course, Trump doesn't have a clue, sends mixed, rambling messages, prefers to spend his time insulting his own governors, has ostracised the scientific community and has driven anyone with half a brain far away from his staff (or simply sacked them for demonstrating intelligence). Boris - to his credit - stepped back, although the UK has seemed a bit slow on the testing front. The restrictions and when they were implemented I agree with, although was disappointed some ignored them.
I think we're looking at France as a few days ahead of us and trying to avoid an Italy/Spain overwhelming of the NHS situation.
A word of caution with stats and the media: we are much better able to visualise numbers such as 100s and 1000s while we cannot easily imagine hundreds of 1000s, let alone millions or greater. Meaning in this situation as total cases get higher and higher, particularly as testing increases, we are going to end up focusing on those serious cases, which are much lower numbers but ones we can actually picture. It is also inevitable that we will focus on human interest stories and the media (BBC especially) makes a lot of its income of this style of reporting, not to mention the impact social media is having for this aspect. We all want information hour-by-hour, and as much as anyone I have an intrinsic need for data, but this can be an overload. All I am saying is keep these points in mind if you feel it gets overwhelming and look out for your own mental health and that of your families.
I am confident a vaccine WILL be developed and that will greatly limit the threat of this virus. As it is a global effort I think this will end this. We need time, however, and have to get through the next few weeks together. | Thanks Doc. Great insight as always. Can you envisage a situation ( rumblings of it now in Italy) where a total lockdown simply becomes unsustainable?
Edited by Wil Chips - 29 March 2020 at 1:18pm
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dr_martinov
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 3:56pm |
Wil Chips wrote:
dr_martinov wrote:
A cheapish, reliable test will make a big difference. Although it won't be the solution, it will enable much more efficient containment and even a possibility of those negative (or who have already had the disease) to return to work.
Compare the situation in South Korea to the USA. Each country had their first case of Covid19 on the same day and then look at the stats now. S. Korea tested heavily and imposed strict movement restrictions, USA did not. Of course, Trump doesn't have a clue, sends mixed, rambling messages, prefers to spend his time insulting his own governors, has ostracised the scientific community and has driven anyone with half a brain far away from his staff (or simply sacked them for demonstrating intelligence). Boris - to his credit - stepped back, although the UK has seemed a bit slow on the testing front. The restrictions and when they were implemented I agree with, although was disappointed some ignored them.
I think we're looking at France as a few days ahead of us and trying to avoid an Italy/Spain overwhelming of the NHS situation.
A word of caution with stats and the media: we are much better able to visualise numbers such as 100s and 1000s while we cannot easily imagine hundreds of 1000s, let alone millions or greater. Meaning in this situation as total cases get higher and higher, particularly as testing increases, we are going to end up focusing on those serious cases, which are much lower numbers but ones we can actually picture. It is also inevitable that we will focus on human interest stories and the media (BBC especially) makes a lot of its income of this style of reporting, not to mention the impact social media is having for this aspect. We all want information hour-by-hour, and as much as anyone I have an intrinsic need for data, but this can be an overload. All I am saying is keep these points in mind if you feel it gets overwhelming and look out for your own mental health and that of your families.
I am confident a vaccine WILL be developed and that will greatly limit the threat of this virus. As it is a global effort I think this will end this. We need time, however, and have to get through the next few weeks together. |
Thanks Doc. Great insight as always. Can you envisage a situation ( rumblings of it now in Italy) where a total lockdown simply becomes unsustainable? |
Not really my area but there must get a point where the impact on the economy and populations' mental health and work productivity of a total lockdown makes it much harder to justify? And after a bit there will be a significant % who have had it already and so could return to work and will want/need to do so. Social unrest may kick in and we've already seen this Government does fold to public pressure. With more testing you'd imagine workplaces could then be controlled or people can make better informed decisions on whether they isolate or not.
We look to Italy, France, Spain and Germany to try to work out the right/wrong things to do. But I do think a lockdown and staggered release of people back to work can "flatten the curve" - which doesn't mean reducing causalities from Covid19 but it could mean keeping the NHS from breaking.
We need more information about the virus and any time we can buy is to our benefit.
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Sosban89
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 5:05pm |
SAV wrote:
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Mr Ian wrote:
too allarmism around coronavirus, is a simple flu, and like other virus could kill people with low immunitaries system... We had an aggressive flu this winter, maybe coronavirus and all now be well... the best vax is switch off internet and television....
| How different it looks 4 weeks later . |
Well the death count is pretty low. More people have died from old age uk wide in the same period of time than from this virus. | typical reply from someone who is 30 , if you were double that age you might be worried pal |
Yeah no doubt. But that in itself is a bias isn't it. If you are someone who is at risk you will worry, if you aren't you won't. Statistically less than 1 in a 1000 people my age who get it will die. And that is over estimating as they don't have correct figures for people who have the virus.
If you are older with no under lying health issues then you are likely to survive. It's going to kill a few people. More civilians will have died in Afghanistan from coalition bombs than this virus in the UK, so it's not really a big issue.
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ladram
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 5:13pm |
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Mr Ian wrote:
too allarmism around coronavirus, is a simple flu, and like other virus could kill people with low immunitaries system... We had an aggressive flu this winter, maybe coronavirus and all now be well... the best vax is switch off internet and television....
| How different it looks 4 weeks later . |
Well the death count is pretty low. More people have died from old age uk wide in the same period of time than from this virus. | typical reply from someone who is 30 , if you were double that age you might be worried pal |
Yeah no doubt. But that in itself is a bias isn't it. If you are someone who is at risk you will worry, if you aren't you won't. Statistically less than 1 in a 1000 people my age who get it will die. And that is over estimating as they don't have correct figures for people who have the virus.
If you are older with no under lying health issues then you are likely to survive. It's going to kill a few people. More civilians will have died in Afghanistan from coalition bombs than this virus in the UK, so it's not really a big issue.
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that's great unless your the one.
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Mr Ian
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 5:29pm |
In Italy firstly died the older people and then the younger...there are cases of 30 yo passed away withour many other pathologies and now there are more then 1000 youngers in Lombardia with polmonite acuta in intensive care... We are no many info about this virus, we base our knowledge on statitic numbers
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Rob o'r Bont
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 5:39pm |
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Mr Ian wrote:
too allarmism around coronavirus, is a simple flu, and like other virus could kill people with low immunitaries system... We had an aggressive flu this winter, maybe coronavirus and all now be well... the best vax is switch off internet and television....
| How different it looks 4 weeks later . |
Well the death count is pretty low. More people have died from old age uk wide in the same period of time than from this virus. | typical reply from someone who is 30 , if you were double that age you might be worried pal |
Yeah no doubt. But that in itself is a bias isn't it. If you are someone who is at risk you will worry, if you aren't you won't. Statistically less than 1 in a 1000 people my age who get it will die. And that is over estimating as they don't have correct figures for people who have the virus.
If you are older with no under lying health issues then you are likely to survive. It's going to kill a few people. More civilians will have died in Afghanistan from coalition bombs than this virus in the UK, so it's not really a big issue.
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Not sure if you fully understood this but the point about the Coronavirus is that it is far more infectious than other viruses and therefore will spread more rapidly and to more people than other viruses. If left unchecked, the death rate would be horrendous, and I mean really horrendous.
All of us can save thousands of lives by being responsible. We can also cost lives by being too matter of fact about it.
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RR1972
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 6:21pm |
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Sosban89 wrote:
SAV wrote:
Mr Ian wrote:
too allarmism around coronavirus, is a simple flu, and like other virus could kill people with low immunitaries system... We had an aggressive flu this winter, maybe coronavirus and all now be well... the best vax is switch off internet and television....
| How different it looks 4 weeks later . |
Well the death count is pretty low. More people have died from old age uk wide in the same period of time than from this virus. | typical reply from someone who is 30 , if you were double that age you might be worried pal |
Yeah no doubt. But that in itself is a bias isn't it. If you are someone who is at risk you will worry, if you aren't you won't. Statistically less than 1 in a 1000 people my age who get it will die. And that is over estimating as they don't have correct figures for people who have the virus.
If you are older with no under lying health issues then you are likely to survive. It's going to kill a few people. More civilians will have died in Afghanistan from coalition bombs than this virus in the UK, so it's not really a big issue.
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so where and when in afghan did you serve to make that expert comment? The vast majority of civilians killed in afghan were by the tailban and other jihadis not the coalition . But don’t let facts get in the way of your rant 👍 and btw this virus is clearly a big issue if your ill or old . So use your head and think before posting
Edited by RR1972 - 29 March 2020 at 6:22pm
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roy munster
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 10:23pm |
dr_martinov wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
dr_martinov wrote:
A cheapish, reliable test will make a big difference. Although it won't be the solution, it will enable much more efficient containment and even a possibility of those negative (or who have already had the disease) to return to work.
Compare the situation in South Korea to the USA. Each country had their first case of Covid19 on the same day and then look at the stats now. S. Korea tested heavily and imposed strict movement restrictions, USA did not. Of course, Trump doesn't have a clue, sends mixed, rambling messages, prefers to spend his time insulting his own governors, has ostracised the scientific community and has driven anyone with half a brain far away from his staff (or simply sacked them for demonstrating intelligence). Boris - to his credit - stepped back, although the UK has seemed a bit slow on the testing front. The restrictions and when they were implemented I agree with, although was disappointed some ignored them.
I think we're looking at France as a few days ahead of us and trying to avoid an Italy/Spain overwhelming of the NHS situation.
A word of caution with stats and the media: we are much better able to visualise numbers such as 100s and 1000s while we cannot easily imagine hundreds of 1000s, let alone millions or greater. Meaning in this situation as total cases get higher and higher, particularly as testing increases, we are going to end up focusing on those serious cases, which are much lower numbers but ones we can actually picture. It is also inevitable that we will focus on human interest stories and the media (BBC especially) makes a lot of its income of this style of reporting, not to mention the impact social media is having for this aspect. We all want information hour-by-hour, and as much as anyone I have an intrinsic need for data, but this can be an overload. All I am saying is keep these points in mind if you feel it gets overwhelming and look out for your own mental health and that of your families.
I am confident a vaccine WILL be developed and that will greatly limit the threat of this virus. As it is a global effort I think this will end this. We need time, however, and have to get through the next few weeks together. |
Thanks Doc. Great insight as always. Can you envisage a situation ( rumblings of it now in Italy) where a total lockdown simply becomes unsustainable? |
Not really my area but there must get a point where the impact on the economy and populations' mental health and work productivity of a total lockdown makes it much harder to justify? And after a bit there will be a significant % who have had it already and so could return to work and will want/need to do so. Social unrest may kick in and we've already seen this Government does fold to public pressure. With more testing you'd imagine workplaces could then be controlled or people can make better informed decisions on whether they isolate or not.
We look to Italy, France, Spain and Germany to try to work out the right/wrong things to do. But I do think a lockdown and staggered release of people back to work can "flatten the curve" - which doesn't mean reducing causalities from Covid19 but it could mean keeping the NHS from breaking.
We need more information about the virus and any time we can buy is to our benefit. |
Im also baffled about the fact passenger flights are still coming into the UK from these virus hot countries ? I think the phrase used is only essential flights are being taken? Internal flights are also still running on a reduced basis, again passengers advised essential flights only Im baffled too why the media hasnt questioned this policy more? The policy is the same with euro tunnel ...advised to travel only if essential....again little has been said about this?
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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SAV
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 10:46pm |
This virus is the domino effect , just wait and see . I really hope I am wrong and it doesn't happen in south wales . BUT IT MIGHT.
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as all the coaches left stradey , bound for nottingham , a sign on the m4 at hendy said , please can the last person close the door behind them , memories
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roy munster
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Posted: 29 March 2020 at 10:51pm |
so many carers and nhs staff still short on proper ppe equipment...I notice too that many wear nothing on their heads ?
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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