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Sir Keir Starmer

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2020 at 3:53pm
Cannot see the financial benefits which accrue from HS2 to justify £200 Billion spending which will, no doubt, become £300B. It saves what 30 minutes a journey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2020 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Cannot see the financial benefits which accrue from HS2 to justify £200 Billion spending which will, no doubt, become £300B. It saves what 30 minutes a journey.

Putting it like that.... you know of the Sunk Cost Fallacy? HS2 starting to look like a prime example of one.

So what is the issue with the England and Wales thing? Does this mean it comes out of a budget intended for projects in Wales or is it just a naming issue?


Edited by dr_martinov - 03 December 2020 at 4:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2020 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Cannot see the financial benefits which accrue from HS2 to justify £200 Billion spending which will, no doubt, become £300B. It saves what 30 minutes a journey.

Putting it like that.... you know of the Sunk Cost Fallacy? HS2 starting to look like a prime example of one.

So what is the issue with the England and Wales thing? Does this mean it comes out of a budget intended for projects in Wales or is it just a naming issue?
No, it’s much more than a naming issue. It means that the money given to the Welsh Government will be £5bn less (if HS2 stays on budget) than what we should get from a population share. Considering that Wales is one of the most deprived areas of the UK it seems like Boris was lying when talking about levelling up!! I know, unbelievable LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2020 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Cannot see the financial benefits which accrue from HS2 to justify £200 Billion spending which will, no doubt, become £300B. It saves what 30 minutes a journey.

Putting it like that.... you know of the Sunk Cost Fallacy? HS2 starting to look like a prime example of one.

So what is the issue with the England and Wales thing? Does this mean it comes out of a budget intended for projects in Wales or is it just a naming issue?
No, it’s much more than a naming issue. It means that the money given to the Welsh Government will be £5bn less (if HS2 stays on budget) than what we should get from a population share. Considering that Wales is one of the most deprived areas of the UK it seems like Boris was lying when talking about levelling up!! I know, unbelievable LOL

I think he was talking about levelling up just for his rich mates who fund the Tory Party. Should have read the small print.

I see Sunak is cutting planned funding to railways by 1 billion today. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 12:58pm
Didn't wish to post this is coronavirus thread even though it links but Starmer really is struggling to have a strong enough voice at present. I am not feeling as though Labour hold any credible opposition at all, yet we have examples of cronyism, corruption and ineptitude within the Government. Not to mention acting unlawfully. They are not being held to account for this. 

This week's budget is now starting to cause debate, most notably the 1% pay rise to the NHS workers and feelings this has triggered. Is there an argument that people should just feel lucky to still have jobs, as the former nurse Dorries suggests, or is it a further insult to an under-funded NHS? And one that has been pushed to the brink during the coronavirus crisis with many staff worked to the point of breakdown? Not to mention putting their lives at risk.

Bringing this back to brief, yes the vaccine roll out has been a great success so far and the Government do deserve credit for this, but why are Labour so ineffective as an opposition party? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Didn't wish to post this is coronavirus thread even though it links but Starmer really is struggling to have a strong enough voice at present. I am not feeling as though Labour hold any credible opposition at all, yet we have examples of cronyism, corruption and ineptitude within the Government. Not to mention acting unlawfully. They are not being held to account for this. 

This week's budget is now starting to cause debate, most notably the 1% pay rise to the NHS workers and feelings this has triggered. Is there an argument that people should just feel lucky to still have jobs, as the former nurse Dorries suggests, or is it a further insult to an under-funded NHS? And one that has been pushed to the brink during the coronavirus crisis with many staff worked to the point of breakdown? Not to mention putting their lives at risk.

Bringing this back to brief, yes the vaccine roll out has been a great success so far and the Government do deserve credit for this, but why are Labour so ineffective as an opposition party? 

Because Starmer is an ineffective politician?His keynote speech a few weeks ago,much-heralded,was like a bad audition.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Didn't wish to post this is coronavirus thread even though it links but Starmer really is struggling to have a strong enough voice at present. I am not feeling as though Labour hold any credible opposition at all, yet we have examples of cronyism, corruption and ineptitude within the Government. Not to mention acting unlawfully. They are not being held to account for this. 

This week's budget is now starting to cause debate, most notably the 1% pay rise to the NHS workers and feelings this has triggered. Is there an argument that people should just feel lucky to still have jobs, as the former nurse Dorries suggests, or is it a further insult to an under-funded NHS? And one that has been pushed to the brink during the coronavirus crisis with many staff worked to the point of breakdown? Not to mention putting their lives at risk.

Bringing this back to brief, yes the vaccine roll out has been a great success so far and the Government do deserve credit for this, but why are Labour so ineffective as an opposition party? 
I don’t know why Labour are so ineffective although their polling figures, although disappointing, is largely pointless so far from the next election. I seriously hope that they will be successful in the next election however since although the Tories try to pretend that they’ve moved away from austerity this is plainly untrue. The fact that government departments are supposed to save billions of pounds compared to the (already low) pre-covid forecasts is scandalous as these savings will fall most heavily on the poor once again. Considering the government itself bought 92% of the Covid debt (through the BoE), any suggestions that these savings are an economic necessity is untrue and they are simply a (disgraceful IMO) political decision. Why Starmer is struggling to make this point to the electorate, I (and seemingly the Labour Party themselves) don’t know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 1:47pm
This has long been a bugbear of mine, we all know the tories are greedy selfish self serving cold hearted chisellers. The lies and double speak and unlawful actions have been appalling. The fact that theyre not being hammered for these multi billion dodgy covid contracts as astonishing....No lets talk about prince harry instead? Who is creating and dictating this insane news cycle narrative which focuses on trivial irrelevant BS instead of what really matters

The endless offshore acounts, theresa may and her 40K zoom call, politicians on all parties breaking their own rules etc The stink is unreal. The credit for the vaccination imo goes to the scientists and nhs not politicians.

At least that is going well and at least we are testing high numbers and funds have been pumped in to help the economy Ill give some credit.

..The real question is how to you defeat them? Not by becoming a radical party that only serves a minority of radicals.....I speak to a lot of people over the years and the main reasons given for labour losing the previous elections were; brexit, over-population hurting public services, failure to represent broken down former industrial areas. New labour oversaw the credit crunch collapse when they deregulated the financial sector and the bank of england, end result people being offered unpayable mortgages at 8 times their income. Theres also the perceived wokeness and the fact they didnt speak to small businesses at all at the last few elections. They didnt speak to other groups either, disability, drivers ,  fathers rights, collapse of town centres etc. The illegal Iraq invasion is still part of it too. A lot of the politicians who voted in favor are still in parliament from labour and tories..There is also a feeling that new labour take pc to such an extreme degree that its become a form of censorship. Corbyn brough in abbott as his home secretary, this is a woman who basically smeared all 17+ million brexiteers racists. Nice vote winner there jezza? None of these things have been addressed.


Edited by roy munster - 05 March 2021 at 2:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Didn't wish to post this is coronavirus thread even though it links but Starmer really is struggling to have a strong enough voice at present. I am not feeling as though Labour hold any credible opposition at all, yet we have examples of cronyism, corruption and ineptitude within the Government. Not to mention acting unlawfully. They are not being held to account for this. 

This week's budget is now starting to cause debate, most notably the 1% pay rise to the NHS workers and feelings this has triggered. Is there an argument that people should just feel lucky to still have jobs, as the former nurse Dorries suggests, or is it a further insult to an under-funded NHS? And one that has been pushed to the brink during the coronavirus crisis with many staff worked to the point of breakdown? Not to mention putting their lives at risk.

Bringing this back to brief, yes the vaccine roll out has been a great success so far and the Government do deserve credit for this, but why are Labour so ineffective as an opposition party? 

1. Because the press is controlled to a very large extent by Tory supporters who are in turn, by and large, tax-dodging exiles

2. Because the BBC has been castrated by the appointment of Tories to the senior positions:
I can only assume that 'someone' has been out there messing up Google's usually useful search engine, since searching for 'top Tories at the BBC' or similar brings up a lot of guff... that, I think, is actually quite sinister. What I can show you is this:

"THE man named as Tony Hall's replacement as director general of the BBC was a local Conservative official in the 90s before joining the broadcaster, it has emerged.

BBC Studios boss Tim Davie stood as a councillor for The Conservative Party in Hammersmith in 1993 and 1994.

He was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservative party in the 1990s, raising questions about his ability to hold the Tory Government to account in his new role."

"TORY donor and former Goldman Sachs banker has been appointed as the new chairman of the BBC, it was announced today.

Richard Sharp will succeed Sir David Clementi, the broadcaster has said.

He was once Chancellor Rishi Sunak’s boss at Goldman Sachs, where he worked for over 20 years and has donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to the Conservative Party.

Private Eye magazine had reported that Mr Sharp had donated almost half a million pounds to the Tories between 2001 and 2010.

He has donated £4,600 since then, according to the Guardian.

During the pandemic, he was an unpaid adviser to Mr Sunak on loans for businesses that have been affected by lockdowns and restrictions.

He is also listed as a board member of Centre for Policy Studies, according to the conservative think tank’s website."

(I am sorry to only be offer these links, but as I suggest, it looks as if 'someone' is gaming Google to make it difficult to find these facts - try it for yourself! It's worrying.)

3. Does Starmer carry no responsibility? Of course he does - he is very good at detailed work, and is far cleverer than Boris - but, as it said in a book I read ages ago, "bullpoo baffles brains". So long as the press and other media don't hold Boris to account, he can get away with his bullpoo... and we'll all suffer as a result. Starmer needs to be more passionate and less lawyerly in his approach.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 1:59pm
Labour have picked a bad leader in the wrong milliband, a disastrous leader in jezza and now a mediocre leader in starmer
 
One was a dreadful speaker, one was just dreadful and the other is as bland as you can get in a party leader.
 
I'd still vote for him but he really is not very inspirational is he?
 
 
Corbyn for all his faults was at least able to rally his fan base and they were vocal in their support
 
Kier just seems to be meh with everyone
 


Edited by RR1972 - 05 March 2021 at 2:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Labour have picked a bad leader in the wrong milliband, a disastrous leader in jezza and now a mediocre leader in starmer
 
One was a dreadful speaker, one was just dreadful and the other is as bland as you can get in a party leader.
 
I'd still vote for him but he really is not very inspirational is he?
 
 
Corbyn for all his faults was at least able to rally his fan base and they were vocal in their support
 
Kier just seems to be meh with everyone
 

You're not wrong, but in truth Johnson is a disaster as PM - the only reason many people don't realise this is because he is given a totally soft ride by the BBC, and (usually) out-and-out support by the Tory press.

If we had a balanced news media in this country, I think the polls would look a lot different.

But we don't.

We are ruled by Tory exiles and tax-dodgers who don't give a flying f*** for anyone but themselves.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Labour have picked a bad leader in the wrong milliband, a disastrous leader in jezza and now a mediocre leader in starmer
 
One was a dreadful speaker, one was just dreadful and the other is as bland as you can get in a party leader.
 
I'd still vote for him but he really is not very inspirational is he?
 
 
Corbyn for all his faults was at least able to rally his fan base and they were vocal in their support
 
Kier just seems to be meh with everyone
 

Hes not the most charismatic, but look where charisma got us with blair and boris?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:12pm
Starmer has declared a pointless,damaging war on the left in his own party,but has lacked any belligerence in his approach towards the Tories.The manner in which democracy has been shut down in the party,and debate stifled,hardly bodes well or instills trust in a man who wishes to lead the British state.Regardless of his politics(what are they?),Starmer is a poor performer,lacking substance and stature.His response to recent set-backs has been to turn to figures like Mandelsson-somebody should tell the man that New Labour is old,the world has changed..The Tories have abandoned much neo-liberal ideology,and are pumping money into former Labour seats.The media have,so far,been kind to Starmer-that will change.Without a radical alternative,persuasively presented,the Tories will,I believe,take more seats from Labour at the next GE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:12pm
BOJO is an odd one, I'm not a fan but if you look at his cv it's incredible
 
won London mayor for the tories
helped get brexit through
won the tory leadership
won a landslide as pm
 
what they say about better to be lucky than to be good


Edited by RR1972 - 05 March 2021 at 2:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Starmer has declared a pointless,damaging war on the left in his own party,but has lacked any belligerence in his approach towards the Tories.The manner in which democracy has been shut down in the party,and debate stifled,hardly bodes well or instills trust in a man who wishes to lead the British state.Regardless of his politics(what are they?),Starmer is a poor performer,lacking substance and stature.His response to recent set-backs has been to turn to figures like Mandelsson-somebody should tell the man that New Labour is old,the world has changed..The Tories have abandoned much neo-liberal ideology,and are pumping money into former Labour seats.The media have,so far,been kind to Starmer-that will change.Without a radical alternative,persuasively presented,the Tories will,I believe,take more seats from Labour at the next GE.
 
what's your take on the snp? they have loads of good speakers , not sure about policies but if it comes to a debate they'll wipe out the labour and torys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2021 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

BOJO is an odd one, I'm not a fan but if you look at his cv it's incredible
 
won London mayor for the tories
helped get brexit through
won the tory leadership
won a landslide as pm
 
what they say about better to be lucky than to be good

Hes sort of like the idiot abroad, idiotic yet strangely compelling too 
Hed be good value on a comedy show but as a leader , the jury is still out
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