Is America becoming a failed state? |
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that Trump got everything wrong are they Roy? However surely there are standards of behaviour you can expect from your president. Stoking up resentment, continually lying about the election results & denying responsibility for outrageous comments - these to me are just some of the events that make him totally unfit for office. Look it didn't take a genius to work out that you could drastically reduce unemployment & thereby boost your ratings by ignoring climate change & open up previously closed fossil fuel businesses. It also didn't need Einstein style intellect that placing embargoes on Chinese goods entering the USA and calling for buy American would play well with the American people. Does that make America great again? I think not. Has America ever been great - I think not but Trump has made America more divided, introduced more racial tension and reduced the office of president to its lowest ever standing throughout the world - not bad for 4 years. Time for Donald to ride off into history with his new best mates - the KKK, the Proud Boys and Latinos for Trump.
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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It seems that some of these insurgents at capitol hill were BLM members ? The plot thickens
Edited by roy munster - 11 January 2021 at 11:03am |
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Jones2004
Veteran Joined: 29 September 2019 Location: North Wales Status: Offline Points: 1439 |
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All that shows is that one out of thirty thousand there was a person with left wing political beliefs who went there to film and record what was happening. Hardly wise of him to go into the building but not a major story either.
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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it is a major story this man was inside capital hill, duly ignored by the liberal media and there was no where near 30,000 people inside the building. Dont get me wrong now the president is responsible for inciting these muppets and needs to go asap, as does guiliani who also incited this... all Im saying is the coverage needs to be impartial less biased and relay all the facts not just select ones
Edited by roy munster - 11 January 2021 at 11:31am |
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Dai Guevara
Veteran Joined: 12 August 2020 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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The large crowd that rioted in and around the Capital building were mainly persuaded to turn up because they had been convinced that the election had been stolen from them by vote rigging and other forms of cheating. At first I had great difficulty in believing this, especially after the BBC announced that Trump, had been pressurising Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger to give him just enough votes to overturn the Democrat majority. However they also said that the conversation took an hour, which seemed odd just to tell the man to give the Republicans the 11,870 extra votes they needed. I saw that there was in fact a transcript of the conversation on the web, and had a look at it. In that time Trump makes several accusations of irregularities, like thousands of his supporters turning up to vote and being told that they could not vote, because they had already voted which was news to them. Also he claims many thousands of dead people had "voted" and that many out of state voters were allowed to vote, and that there were many other forms of cheating going on in Georgia and other states. Typically the BBC and most other mainstream organs only quoted the one-liner that made Trump look as low as possible. Now I'm not sure who to believe but I'm sure that all those involved in the protest march which turned into a *coup* believed that their leader had been robbed of another term, or they wouldn't have bothered.
What is curious is that the media never seemed to want to ask them why they thought the election had been stolen from them, and then tried to investigate whether there was any truth in their accusations. Could it be that they were afraid that they would find some truth in it, and that another glorious illusion of the "exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill" would hit the dust ie fair elections. If you would like to see the whole transcript try- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9109665/Transcript-Trumps-call-pressuring-Brad-Raffensperger-change-Georgias-election-results.html |
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 11409 |
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The allegations made by Trump have been discredited in several Courts in the USA. As in any other law suit, the onus is on those making allegations to prove their point, and Trump and his lawyers have failed to do this. Don't forget also, that Trump's allegations relate only to the States that he lost. These States were previously held by the Republicans. Looking at it that way, it would seem that Republicans have themselves have turned against Trump. Don't forget, that Brad Raffensperger is a Republican. I therefore fail to see where the Democrats come in to Trump's allegations in Georgia ?
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 11409 |
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Some of Trump's supporters also believe that he is fighting a coven of paedophiles who are pat of the 'dep state'. Trump also initiated the 'birther' movement alleging that Obama was not born in the USA.
Obama eventually produced his birth certificate to disprove Trump's allegations. With the evidence before him in black and white, I don't think Trump ever fell on his sword on that one. If asked i suspect he'd claim that Obama's birth certificate was a forgery. Trump has form for making wild allegations, he said that more people attended his Inauguration than attended Obama's. The live pictures disproved that.
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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Trump is a liar who is conceited enough that he starts to believe his lies. If there were some irregularities in the voting system which involved 150+ million people I would not be surprised. Were all the irregularities against Trump - no way; would he have won anyway - not a chance. Anyone dull enough to believe that his election was stolen has my abiding sympathy.
The World will be a better place without Trump; I resist saying safer because I am afraid most American presidents think its their God given right to change governments/regimes that they disagree with. Perhaps the shame of what has happened recently may make future leaders more reluctant to throw their weight around but I won't be holding my breath.
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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You can't argue with conspiracy theorists. They have a pre-determined theory and any evidence that counters it they dismiss as being fake or wrong. The focus should be on proving your own theory to be correct yet they present negligible evidence themselves rarely from reliable sources, solely relying on claims someone else is "covering up the truth", usually for vague implausible reasons, if any.
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ladram
Rambler Joined: 08 April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26826 |
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I don't know if anyone saw the programme last night about the storming of the whitehouse?it was scary how the police just seemed to let it go in some cases and even assist in others,there are some dangerous lunatics in america and i don't envy biden on trying to bring that country together.
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Dai Guevara
Veteran Joined: 12 August 2020 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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I didn't see the programme but I've certainly seen a lot of comments stating that the building was very lightly protected compared to that which was there for the BLM march, and this in spite of the internet being awash with threats of "something big" about to happen in response to what they claim was a "stolen election" .
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 11409 |
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Didn't see the programme, but it was preceded by a fairly lengthy piece on the ITV 10 o'clock news. Police Chief lied when he said that they had no intelligence regarding the 'assault'. He said his officers were overwhelmed which may not have happened had they listened to the intelligence. The big concern now is the Inauguration. Biden has aid that he is happy for it to go ahead in the open air. For security reasons, perhaps it should go ahead indoors at the WH or Capitol Building. Trump did say yesterday that he wanted no violence, but unhelpfully then went on to say that what he said last Wednesday was 'appropriate', and that many agreed with what he said. Again HE is lying and posting fake news.
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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I am extremely surprised that the FBI have not arrested Rudy Guliani whose comments are indefensible - he actually called for violence for goodness sake. Apparently the jail term for inciting violence is 20 years - that should keep both Trump & Rudy suitably occupied for a while. |
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ladram
Rambler Joined: 08 April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26826 |
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it's worth watching .
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18267 |
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I'm not one for conspiracy theorys but you have to admit they didn't half make it easy for trumps lot to get access to what should have been a highly protected building Now depending on your mid set It's either a total failure in planning and intelligence . Or a cynical ploy to let them run amok and then have a field day slating them in the media and dis credit them and further discredit trump as a politician. |
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18783 |
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With 5 deaths, one a police officer, I wouldn't want to be the guy who ignored intelligence.
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