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Will size matter?

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westwalesdragon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote westwalesdragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2006 at 5:17pm
Exactly. Its all about creating an atmosphere where people would rather come and watch the game at the ground than on TV. If we can build a stadium with the character to get people there every week, and market the games in a way where the whole region is covered as well as possible, we could realistically look at 10000 on a regular basis. Definitely sell outs for local derby's and Euro games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DgembaDgemba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2006 at 5:17pm

Once again Abbey great post

The localised condition of planetary atmospheric condensation caused a malfunction in the visual orientation circuits...

Or to put it another way, we got lost in the fog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redeyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2006 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by al25 al25 wrote:

if we keep playing the brand of rugby we showed against toulouse but tighten our defence a bit then realisticly i think we can acheive 12,000 and 15,000 for the big games.people will want to go watch a team playing that sort of rugby imo

 

100% correct. play decent rugby and the crowds will come. i bet the "stephen jones" factor will see more season ticket holders next season.

The stadium may change, but the dream will remain the same!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2006 at 10:39pm

Originally posted by Jon_The_Scarlet Jon_The_Scarlet wrote:

How much standing room is planned for the new stadium?

3,000

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scarletrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 January 2006 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Quagmire Quagmire wrote:

Originally posted by Jon_The_Scarlet Jon_The_Scarlet wrote:

How much standing room is planned for the new stadium?

3,000

That's 2,999 and me then!



Edited by SCARLETROVER

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 1:53am

I have a few comments and a question:

Question: What is the size of population that the Scarlets play in, or what is the size of the scarlets market?

As you know I live in the Chicago area,... the most comparable sport to Rugby is soccer (as far as attendance and popularity is concern). Soldier Field (ahuge 60,000+ stadium) is where the Chicago Fire played their games the past two years. The year before that they played at a small college's stadium(cardinal stadium). The games at Cardinal stadium  (about 15k) were much better and cozier than the manmoth Soldier field. The atmosphere was much better, and the tickets much cheaper. This year, they are moving to their new stadium (built on the English soccer stadium) which will hold 20k.

Its a valid point to state that a staium can be too big, however, if you stay small, you will never grow to be a powerhouse in Rugby.  More people means greater revenue, greater revenue means more money for better players. In turn, better players mean better results, better result means more interest and more interest means more fans.

There is stillthe question, isn't too big? Well, this is why I ask the question. I assume that the Scarlet "brass" did some studies to determine the best situation for the growth and development of the club. I know the Chicago Fire did. The new stadium (the Fires') is being built to be expanded if need be,... I hope the same concept is being followed with the Scarlets.... I guess this leads to another question,...LOL

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Pemberton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 2:01am
Originally posted by Pike Pike wrote:

 

Its a valid point to state that a staium can be too big, however, if you stay small, you will never grow to be a powerhouse in Rugby.  More people means greater revenue, greater revenue means more money for better players. In turn, better players mean better results, better result means more interest and more interest means more fans.

but where do the 6,000+ extra people come from?

who's for the beach?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 3:36am

our growth, thats where. in the 80`s we would have on average around 3000 gates. since hc rugby came upon us the interest has grown and grown, at our peak we were averaging around 7-9000, with quite a few games sell outs, and some games could have been sold twice over. missed revenue. are people honestly suggesting that we build a stadium the same size as stradey? we may as well build extra to allow some growth. imo they have got the target just right. not too much so we`ll be like a morgue, but enough to cope with bigger games. it will be interesting to see who else we sign along with stevo this year, and how that then has a knock on effect on our season ticket sales next season. the group in europe could see us have anyone dont forget. i`m hanging out for a trip to italy.

scarlet finchè muoio



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vulcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 7:43am
Originally posted by Pike Pike wrote:

I have a few comments and a question:

Question: What is the size of population that the Scarlets play in, or what is the size of the scarlets market?

As you know I live in the Chicago area,... the most comparable sport to Rugby is soccer (as far as attendance and popularity is concern). Soldier Field (ahuge 60,000+ stadium) is where the Chicago Fire played their games the past two years. The year before that they played at a small college's stadium(cardinal stadium). The games at Cardinal stadium  (about 15k) were much better and cozier than the manmoth Soldier field. The atmosphere was much better, and the tickets much cheaper. This year, they are moving to their new stadium (built on the English soccer stadium) which will hold 20k.

Its a valid point to state that a staium can be too big, however, if you stay small, you will never grow to be a powerhouse in Rugby.  More people means greater revenue, greater revenue means more money for better players. In turn, better players mean better results, better result means more interest and more interest means more fans.

There is stillthe question, isn't too big? Well, this is why I ask the question. I assume that the Scarlet "brass" did some studies to determine the best situation for the growth and development of the club. I know the Chicago Fire did. The new stadium (the Fires') is being built to be expanded if need be,... I hope the same concept is being followed with the Scarlets.... I guess this leads to another question,...LOL

It was written somewhere (Not Midol) that there would be room for expansion.

No doubt Mike and several others will disbelieve. If so, tough

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 8:53am
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

our growth, thats where. in the 80`s we would have on average around 3000 gates. since hc rugby came upon us the interest has grown and grown, at our peak we were averaging around 7-9000, with quite a few games sell outs, and some games could have been sold twice over. missed revenue. are people honestly suggesting that we build a stadium the same size as stradey? we may as well build extra to allow some growth. imo they have got the target just right. not too much so we`ll be like a morgue, but enough to cope with bigger games. it will be interesting to see who else we sign along with stevo this year, and how that then has a knock on effect on our season ticket sales next season. the group in europe could see us have anyone dont forget. i`m hanging out for a trip to italy.

scarlet finchè muoio

In fairness Speedy, before the introduction of the Welsh league, there were regular 5-6,000 crowds at Stradey because we had the games against the English as well as the strong Welsh clubs such as Pontypool ( I clearly remember a 12,000 full house for the visist of the mighty Pooler on a Wednesday night).

If we want to make the new stadium fairly intimidating, we have got to be looking at filling it for the big games and an average attendance of 9-10,000 for all the others.

If the region are sitting back and using the "build it and they will come" attitude (and there is nothing to suggest that they are adopting this stance) then the stadium will be a failure. Just like the foundations, work should be starting 18months down the line to raise our core support and not when the thing is open.

If the region just target the people of Llanelli, it will fail. Now is the time that the whole region should be targeted because the law of averages says that it should be easier to get 9-10,000 from 600,000 than 75,000.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DgembaDgemba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 9:00am

Cant believe it.  Drove through Brecon last night and there was a sign advertising the up and coming home games!  I have never seen that before! 

 

The localised condition of planetary atmospheric condensation caused a malfunction in the visual orientation circuits...

Or to put it another way, we got lost in the fog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by Quagmire Quagmire wrote:

anyone else have any concerns about the capacity of the new stadium? there was a crowd of just over 7,000 on saturday. seeing as our average gate is 6,000 do you think 15,000 capacity will be too big? we've all seen the liberty stadium on a match day on tv and it looks terrible half full. i've no doubt there will be an increase in crowds in our first season but not enough to fill it. not even the majority of the english clubs can get average gates of 10,000 plus.

apart from that i can't wait  

You keep banging on about this don't you!

It's been said often enough, but as another thread has been created about it, I'll repeat:

1. In every instance in professional sporting history, a new stadium/facilities has = more supporters buying tickets (and not just in the first season) and more revenues generated.

2. Even if every gate at the new stadium is EXACTLY the same as the gates at Stradey this season - the club will still be financially better off.

3. Stradey capacity is 11,000 - it would be ludicrous to build a new stadium with the same capacity. Achieving a 15,000 sell-out is a realistic target for some games - prime fixtures like big HC/PC, Ospreys and Xmas period derbies.

1. Your probably on the right path ( but hell of a claim !), but success fills stadiums. The novelty of a new stadium will wear off pretty quickly.

2. Do you see a rise in prices across the board?

3. Success and competitive pricing would help.

I also think its slightly unfair that you accuse Quagmire of banging on about this.

We`ve had two crowds for Swansea and Cardiff over xmas, but these are bi-annual fixtures so can`t be relied upon. We`ve had Wasps, Newcastle, Sale and Toulouse so far at Stradey this season and haven`t come close to filling it for these games.

I think that Quagmire`s concerns reflect the thoughts of many supporters, and not hust some who contribute to this forum.

The point is that we don't "have" to fill the new stadium purely to make it worthwhile moving. Obviously we want attendances to be as high as possible, but the constant "where are we going to get the 6,000 extra fans from?" wears a bit thin after you've heard it for the umpteenth time.

It's all been explained enough times to people, but if they can't or refuse to understand simple facts then that's up to them.

Just out of interest, if you had any involvement in decision making at the Scarlets (God forbid), what capacity would you build the new stadium?



Edited by Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 12:39pm

i was drawing upon the atmosphere of the place rather than the financial side. i work with a large amount of scarlets and ospreys supporters and the ospreys ones say there's not much atmosphere when their ground is half empty.

points taken though. anyway, the bulldozers are in so let's just look forward to things. there's 18 months of work ahead to discuss

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by DgembaDgemba DgembaDgemba wrote:

Cant believe it.  Drove through Brecon last night and there was a sign advertising the up and coming home games!  I have never seen that before! 

To wind Andy Powell up that is !!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by Quagmire Quagmire wrote:

anyone else have any concerns about the capacity of the new stadium? there was a crowd of just over 7,000 on saturday. seeing as our average gate is 6,000 do you think 15,000 capacity will be too big? we've all seen the liberty stadium on a match day on tv and it looks terrible half full. i've no doubt there will be an increase in crowds in our first season but not enough to fill it. not even the majority of the english clubs can get average gates of 10,000 plus.

apart from that i can't wait  

You keep banging on about this don't you!

It's been said often enough, but as another thread has been created about it, I'll repeat:

1. In every instance in professional sporting history, a new stadium/facilities has = more supporters buying tickets (and not just in the first season) and more revenues generated.

2. Even if every gate at the new stadium is EXACTLY the same as the gates at Stradey this season - the club will still be financially better off.

3. Stradey capacity is 11,000 - it would be ludicrous to build a new stadium with the same capacity. Achieving a 15,000 sell-out is a realistic target for some games - prime fixtures like big HC/PC, Ospreys and Xmas period derbies.

1. Your probably on the right path ( but hell of a claim !), but success fills stadiums. The novelty of a new stadium will wear off pretty quickly.

2. Do you see a rise in prices across the board?

3. Success and competitive pricing would help.

I also think its slightly unfair that you accuse Quagmire of banging on about this.

We`ve had two crowds for Swansea and Cardiff over xmas, but these are bi-annual fixtures so can`t be relied upon. We`ve had Wasps, Newcastle, Sale and Toulouse so far at Stradey this season and haven`t come close to filling it for these games.

I think that Quagmire`s concerns reflect the thoughts of many supporters, and not hust some who contribute to this forum.

The point is that we don't "have" to fill the new stadium purely to make it worthwhile moving. Obviously we want attendances to be as high as possible, but the constant "where are we going to get the 6,000 extra fans from?" wears a bit thin after you've heard it for the umpteenth time.

It's all been explained enough times to people, but if they can't or refuse to understand simple facts then that's up to them.

Just out of interest, if you had any involvement in decision making at the Scarlets (God forbid), what capacity would you build the new stadium?

Personally speaking, a capacity of about 12-13,000 would be ideal at the moment, and I gather that there are two options on the table as far as the plans are concerned, one for this option and one for 15,000. If there was a way of making it 12,000 with the ability to make it 15,000 if we were constantly attracting the big crowds, then that would be the direction to go.

Your first sentance is very interesting, and appears to me that you accept the initial points raised by Quagmire. Make no bones about it, the novelty of a new stadium will wear off very quickly; ask Osprey supporters.

I also don`t think that its the case that people can`t or refuse to accept simple facts. The subject of the new stadium stimulates good debate on the forum, and neither you,I, or anyone else will know how successful it will be until the end of our first season there. I hope that more supporters will attend on a regular basis, from all over the region and not just town, and that should be achieved through a number of channels with winning, entertaining rugby and competitive pricing being a good start.

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2006 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by Quagmire Quagmire wrote:

Personally speaking, a capacity of about 12-13,000 would be ideal at the moment, and I gather that there are two options on the table as far as the plans are concerned, one for this option and one for 15,000. If there was a way of making it 12,000 with the ability to make it 15,000 if we were constantly attracting the big crowds, then that would be the direction to go.

Your first sentance is very interesting, and appears to me that you accept the initial points raised by Quagmire. Make no bones about it, the novelty of a new stadium will wear off very quickly; ask Osprey supporters.

I also don`t think that its the case that people can`t or refuse to accept simple facts. The subject of the new stadium stimulates good debate on the forum, and neither you,I, or anyone else will know how successful it will be until the end of our first season there. I hope that more supporters will attend on a regular basis, from all over the region and not just town, and that should be achieved through a number of channels with winning, entertaining rugby and competitive pricing being a good start.

Well Pimp your so out field at the moment that you are bordering on the laughable. figures are stating that Rugby is on the up, the fan base is growing and if we continue to build on what we are doing on field, then the fan base will obviously grow......

On the point of the Ospreys with the dwindling support, what you fail to understand is the fact that they are cr@p..... their first few games they they had good attendances, yes they were pre-season friendlies but it showed that they would be terrible this season and the fan base started to fall, also the fact that they refused to play some games at the gnoll, caused quite a lot of fans to stay away......

So what you want Llanelli RFC LTD to do is think small so stay small, that's a great mentality to have there isn't it.

What Llanelli RFC LTD are doing is thinking ahead and with the current trend of rugby attendances rising and the hopefull success of the national team then attendances will rise... what is the problem with playing infront of a 3/4 full stadium.. I'd rather do that than see Llanelli RFC LTD having to turn fans away 3 to 4 times a year......

Just remember, when the new stadium is built we'll be watching the Heineken cup champions playing there.....



Edited by salmidach
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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