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Future of the Academy

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townboy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 April 2016 at 7:05pm
Just thought i'd post asking for the forum's thought's of the future of our Academy..The reason i'm asking is that it's disappointing to see players coming through the Academy then moving on to go to other clubs,regions..Rhodri Williams,Kirby Mayhill,Jordan Williams,Steve Shingler,Rhodri Jones.. this season moving on perhaps some not being given long enough at their home Region.
Last year it was Gareth Thomas( prop with the Ospreys now given a new 3year deal),Shaun Bennett ( new deal given to him in Northampton)..It's a shame we invest money and time on them only tobe picked up by other clubs who could benfit the best years of these guys..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mundoscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 7:40pm
But how long can you expect players to stay when there are better in front of them?its a catch 22 situation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by townboy townboy wrote:

Just thought i'd post asking for the forum's thought's of the future of our Academy..The reason i'm asking is that it's disappointing to see players coming through the Academy then moving on to go to other clubs,regions..Rhodri Williams,Kirby Mayhill,Jordan Williams,Steve Shingler,Rhodri Jones.. this season moving on perhaps some not being given long enough at their home Region.
Last year it was Gareth Thomas( prop with the Ospreys now given a new 3year deal),Shaun Bennett ( new deal given to him in Northampton)..It's a shame we invest money and time on them only tobe picked up by other clubs who could benfit the best years of these guys..

  Its a decision the coaches have to make,from Academy,semi pro teams and the regional set up ,unfortunately not all the boys will make it through .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 8:24pm
How many of our former Academy players have not succeeded with us, but have gone on to thrive elsewhere when the player we kept has not succeeded. eg Nic Cudd has done well but Cubby has done even better 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 8:26pm
Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.

 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.


 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink


And had regionalisation come in a decade earlier, Shane would have been a Scarlet 😊



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.


 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink


And had regionalisation come in a decade earlier, Shane would have been a Scarlet 😊

  You can add Jon Thomas to Abbey .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 9:21pm
For all the Academy product that move away without really setting the world alight, there are those that do and have.

Foxy, Scott, Cawdor, Steff Evans, Steff Hughes, Aled Davies, Ken, Rob, Samson - just a few of the players still here (Foxy returning next season ) that were developed through our Academy.
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.


 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink


And had regionalisation come in a decade earlier, Shane would have been a Scarlet 😊





Sorry to tell you abbey, as a friend of his in school, there wouldn't be a chance in hell of Him wearing the red of the scarlets. He was a neath boy through and through.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.


 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink


And had regionalisation come in a decade earlier, Shane would have been a Scarlet 😊





Sorry to tell you abbey, as a friend of his in school, there wouldn't be a chance in hell of Him wearing the red of the scarlets. He was a neath boy through and through.
Shane supported Llanelli as a kid, he's quite open about it
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abbey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2016 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.


 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink


And had regionalisation come in a decade earlier, Shane would have been a Scarlet 😊





Sorry to tell you abbey, as a friend of his in school, there wouldn't be a chance in hell of Him wearing the red of the scarlets. He was a neath boy through and through.


Had the regional system been in place whilst he was still at school, he'd have had no choice but to go through the Scarlets system regardless of where his allegiance lay.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2016 at 7:27am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:

Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Players will always have ambition and will judge that if opportunities aren't available at their home region, they'll look elsewhere. It happens both ways, though, and we'll bring in Rhys Patchell who is in exactly the same position at Cardiff Blues.

It's true, though, that many of our kids move east (from Wayne Evans, Hugh Gustafson, Luke Hamilton and Nic Cudd to Lou Reed, Josh Turnbull and Adam Warren and a whole host more, although not all were academy products).
The Ospreys seem to keep hold of their players better than the other regions.


 
  What happened with Halfpenny,Sanjay and Owen Williams ? Wink


And had regionalisation come in a decade earlier, Shane would have been a Scarlet 😊





Sorry to tell you abbey, as a friend of his in school, there wouldn't be a chance in hell of Him wearing the red of the scarlets. He was a neath boy through and through.
Shane supported Llanelli as a kid, he's quite open about it


He was a neath boy. So was delme Williams. (Former Wales a wing) I was in same class as them in school and, as I did with other teams, they hated the scarlets.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2016 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:


How many of our former Academy players have not succeeded with us, but have gone on to thrive elsewhere when the player we kept has not succeeded. eg Nic Cudd has done well but Cubby has done even better 


When all is said and done I guess that's pretty much the overriding point. Players released, or left because we made an offer to stay that wasn't acceptable, that have gone on to be first team regulars at a high standard, are very few..

My only grievance is a club should have a robust, intensive and thorough review of a player when his time in the academy is up ( usually 19/20 years old). We have something in place. But I'm not convinced it's based on much more than opinion and a few gym stats. I have first hand knowledge of this process.

So we then offer full or development contracts to quite a few players that may not really been of quite the right calibre....something we then determine / comes to light over the ensuing 2-3 years...whilst of course possibly releasing players that may have had better potential. This doesn't do any party any good....some players spend that time making the odd LV appearance and then get released with a poor looking CV at 23/24 years old.

There are of course players that are just unlucky either from brutal injuries at a key time in their development ( Cudd and Dale Ford being a case in point ) or have just found themselves coming through at the same time as 2-3 others in that position...this is always the case in specialist positions like hooker and scrum half...on another day Rhodri Williams and Kirby Myhill would be first team regulars.

One thing that is at in-precedented levels right now, is inter-region transfers...I don't think is a bad thing at all....losing Welsh developed talent to the Aviva isn't the best thing.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2016 at 5:51pm
agreed about inter regional transfers being a good thing, maybe even loans will become more popular.
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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