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Gats undermines the Lions

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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

I thought the 6 call ups are there for more than a week as they will cover the midweek game on the 27th as well.


1 week according to Gats at his presser.
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 9:04am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

But if say 2 or maybe one lock gets injured Hill will no doubt stay there- only a 7 day stint if every one else stays fit.


I suppose Hill could stay, but I'm not sure, but why wouldn't Gats call up one of the Grays too if a 2nd row is injured?
All rows are still on tour right now.
No way on Gods green earth is Hill going to start a game for the Lions.

Also Scotland still have Fiji this coming weekend...If I was Townsend I would block a drain of his starting players to be in NZ for a week...he had obviously decided he was going to play another 10 this weekend before releasing Russell.

My take on this is that I am 99% sure Francis, Gareth and Russell will get on for the last 15-20 mins...so triggering notable payments to their union...Dacey, Allen and Hill will only see game time if someone is injured.

The plan is to release all 6 after next weekend...however I am also sure Gats will take stock of the total squad after that 1st test and adjust his call ups accordingly. All home Nations will have finished the summer tours too.
I think this is why he hasn't yet replaced Hogg and Moriarty, he's just waiting to see how the next 2 games go.


Hill and Dacey on the bench to face Chiefs.


Yes, all 6 called up are on the bench.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 10:42am
To further muddy the waters, AWJ is also on the bench on tuesday. So which of Hill and AWJ goes on if there is an early replacement required? And it's not as simple an answer as one might think if one is trying to protect AWJ for the saturday.

I'm not sure I get the undermining of the Lions scenario. There have always been Lions whose selection was dubious- to mention one from us- Peter Morgan. Did he deserve a Lions selection? And there used to be an honourable tradition of Lions selection before you won your first cap- both Delme and Derek Q played tests for the Lions before they played tests for Wales.
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 10:54am
Lawes has just passed a HIA today so I guess AWJ was he man to cover the bench...it pretty much also means he wont be starting the first test ( Itoje on Kruis there I think)...neither will Sanjay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Lawes has just passed a HIA today so I guess AWJ was he man to cover the bench...it pretty much also means he wont be starting the first test ( Itoje on Kruis there I think)...neither will Sanjay.


So Lawes on the bench but it still seems that they should have called up a back-row either instead of or as well as Hill? Any one for Barclay?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 11:53am
Any international playing for the home unions on tour at the moment would want to play for the Lions even if it were for ten minutes. The international coaches have always respected that and released accordingly. There should have been a stand by list as usual.   Ryan Jones and Easterby played well on the 2005 tour having not been part of the original party. . He's a New Zealander at the end of the day.

Edited by LLANDRE - 18 June 2017 at 11:54am
West is Best (Fin gwybod)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 12:27pm
On form AWJ to be on bench Kurtis and Itoje playing at different level at moment but he is some replacement. Very strong bench with Warburton And Ken.
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 8:05pm
Hill and possibly Dacey provided cover for the Uk training camps . So whilst others are ahead of them in terms of ability they know the calls as well as being in the right time zone

As for devaluing the Lions tradition, the only tradition the Liions have in New Zealand is losing Test Series so if this helps make a difference good luck to Garland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Hill and possibly Dacey provided cover for the Uk training camps . So whilst others are ahead of them in terms of ability they know the calls as well as being in the right time zone

As for devaluing the Lions tradition, the only tradition the Liions have in New Zealand is losing Test Series so if this helps make a difference good luck to Garland


And that's the point- win the test series and everything else is forgotten.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

They've been called up to sit on the bench this midweek game. The inference is that they won't get on unless there is an injury. And if they don't get on, they're not Lions. This is to enable the test 23 to not be involved midweek and to prepare for the test without distractions.

Thus far it makes sense but the Hill over Gray selection is inexplainable.



You'd call Gray up to sit on the bench and be part of the camp for a week?


Why not Wil. Are you really advocating that Gatlands decision makes sense? What will happen if Lawes breaks down & one of the top 3 locks gets injured? Gatland will then, if my understanding of your rationale is correct, call up Launchbury or Grey & send Corey Hill home. Surely you do not select a Lion based on being bench fodder. Gatland has done the Lions brand a great disservice. He could have called up Launchbury immediately after the Argentina 1st test as he will have known his plans. 


Dacey, Allen and Hill are nothing but bench fodder, and for one game,surely they haven't been called up based on any merit?

Also if I was Townsend or Eddie Jones, and Gats asked for a few players from their squads for a week, whilst they also had an international fixture coming up this weekend, I think I would politely tell him where to go.

It's a real concern that Wales have released 4 players that started last weekend, ok maybe Dacey and Hill wouldn't have started this weekend, but releasing Gareth and Francis means rookie starters at 3 and 9, add that to Cuthy going home, and the squad looks very light on experience, with Samoa a better team than Tonga.

Regarding call ups...its interesting how he hasn't called anyone up to replace Hogg and Moriarty.
Does he have a plan...of course he has. (See my post above for my opinion)
That doesn't mean I agree with it of course. But I can distinguish between the dialogue around de-valuing the shirt, and having a game plan.



Thats an interesting slant on the episode Wil. Time will tell if he has a masterplan or is just not as clever as he seems to think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2017 at 9:22pm
I am concerned about the lack of experience in the Welsh team too, but who said anything about Samoa being a better team than Tonga?  The former were beaten 78-0 by the All Blacks (yes I know that second-string Wales are rather different to first-string NZ, but still) and are actually ranked below Tonga in the current world rankings.
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