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Replacements and uncontested scrums

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aber-fan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 February 2012 at 12:01pm
First of all, a note on what I think happened in a recent game (I'm not 100% sure):

We were playing at home (v Glasgow, I believe), and both their TH props went off injured (one came back on later). We'd been awarded a scrum 5m out, and at their captain's request the ref called for an uncontested scrum even though I'm fairly certain there was a LH prop on the bench.

This seemed a bit 'iffy' to me, and I asked on the forum why the LH didn't come on to allow for a proper scrum. A poster replied that for H&S reasons, a LH can not take the place of a TH.

Now we get to the interersting bit (for anoraks like me, anyway!). In the pro-12, there has to be a whole front row on the bench (8 subs), but in the 6N there are only 7 (usually including only ONE prop). So the question is this:

Is there a law/rule/H&S directive which insists that a prop sub can only play on his 'usual' side of the scrum? (and if that is the case, isn't there a risk of an awful lot of uncontested scrums in the 6N if a prop gets hurt and there is no prop on the bench who can play on his side?)

Thanks for any clarification!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 12:15pm
Aber-fan, I totally agree with you. IMO a prop is a prop ability wise - LH or TH is irrelevant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 12:33pm
LH & TH are two technically different positions, especially in the top tier of Rugby, if they weren't, then we wouldn't have to pay a kings ransom for a good TH prop !

The Law book states that replacements "MUST BE SUITABLY TRAINED" for the position required .... If a LH Prop has not been suitably trained to play TH, then Uncontested scrums must take place !
The Team Managers are required to mark on the team sheets, any from row replacements & their relevant positions ! There is always a risk of U/C scrums even in PRO12 fixtures, I have refereed many a game, where the teams have fulfilled their Front Row requirements, only for the first two injuries occur to the TH prop & then his replacement !Confused

Incidentally, the Six Nations goes to a 23 Player Match Day Squad next season, as does the IRB Matches !
Oh & another note for next season (Southern Hemishpere only to start) the Referee will have the power to put an incident/player on report, if he believes something untoward has occurred that has been missed by the match day officials.


Edited by scarletman - 04 February 2012 at 12:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Aber-fan, I totally agree with you. IMO a prop is a prop ability wise - LH or TH is irrelevant.
I do recall you stating this in a previous thread Haydn, as a matter of interest, what position did you play, & at what level ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:


Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Aber-fan, I totally agree with you. IMO a prop is a prop ability wise - LH or TH is irrelevant.

I do recall you stating this in a previous thread Haydn, as a matter of interest, what position did you play, & at what level ?

TH prop, and occasionally had to make do playing LH!!

Admittedly it wasn't at a high regional or pro level but the basics are still the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2012 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

LH & TH are two technically different positions, especially in the top tier of Rugby, if they weren't, then we wouldn't have to pay a kings ransom for a good TH prop !

The Law book states that replacements "MUST BE SUITABLY TRAINED" for the position required .... If a LH Prop has not been suitably trained to play TH, then Uncontested scrums must take place !
The Team Managers are required to mark on the team sheets, any from row replacements & their relevant positions ! There is always a risk of U/C scrums even in PRO12 fixtures, I have refereed many a game, where the teams have fulfilled their Front Row requirements, only for the first two injuries occur to the TH prop & then his replacement !Confused

Incidentally, the Six Nations goes to a 23 Player Match Day Squad next season, as does the IRB Matches !
Oh & another note for next season (Southern Hemishpere only to start) the Referee will have the power to put an incident/player on report, if he believes something untoward has occurred that has been missed by the match day officials.


If the danger is real, it looks as if for this season EITHER the prop subs will simply have to take their chances in the 6N if they have to replace a prop on the 'other' siede of the scrum, OR we may see quite a lot of uncontested scrums.

You can be sure that I'll be watching very carefully to see if any props pack down on the 'wrong' side in the 6N this season!

(BTW - I used to play prop - started as a LH and then moved to TH - but at a low level TBH. Still, it didn't seem to me to be that different - it's all about balance, and putting the other guy in an uncomfortable position - that's why LHs in particular try to push a bit sideways - it neutralises the TH, if they can get away with it.)
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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