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Iraq and recent wars

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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iraq and recent wars
    Posted: 16 August 2014 at 8:51am
It's been a horrible few years:

Iraq
Egypt
Syria
Ukraine
The continuing Israel Gaza conflict
And then back to Iraq, further civil war and genocide
(I'm sure I've missed some out as well)

I know this is very depressing stuff (I actually tend to avoid watching the news for this reason) but this story on the massacre of a village in Iraq by Islamic Extremists was terrible to read and should be highlighted:


I don't know enough about politics to say the UN or the US, UK, Germany etc should be doing this or that in it - but there do seem to be a lot of conflicts at the moment and the world generally stands by and watches? Maybe this is how it's always been, I don't know, and it's simply the improved communication and extended reach of modern media that has made it more apparent, but all it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

So yes, within this thread I would be interested to hear people's views on the politics of it, but there seem to be a lot of incredibly [beep]ed up places at the moment and the political tension is growing all the time. 


Edited by dr_martinov - 16 August 2014 at 8:51am
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reesytheexile View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2014 at 9:20am
Thankfully the invasion and massacre of the Welsh by the "English (ie French Royalty) took place several hundred years ago! 
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
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scarletabroad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2014 at 2:49pm

The problems occur when you remove rightly or wrongly the governing figure who gels the country, be it through tyranny Saddam, or unification Tito (Yugoslavia) Ghandi, you could also include all of the African countries governed by their respective European rulers of the time.

All have a unifying factor either a unification of a celebrated hero who joined everyone together in the face of adversity against a common foe or they unified to fight/depise the governing country over them or dictator.
 
In all cases once that gel has been removed they have all reverted back to their age old custom of hating each other the only difference now is they have better weapons. The tribes in the relevant African countries Tutsis for example find the common goal of hatred of the european rulers has gone so they continue their age old tribal hatred, Tito died and Yugoslavia decended into their seperatist hatred of each other, Saddam goes and the Kurds, different muslim sects all decend into their age old hatred of each other as the central point has gone.
 
In a perverse way if apart from the unavoidable death element the central point of hate remained would they be fighting each other?? The fact is some of these peoples have been fighting each other since time began and only stopped on occasion when there was an overpowering ruler, Persian empire, Britain Saddam.
 
In history there was no UN or interventions so the strongest ruled and invariably internal strife was minimal due to oppression. Now these sort of dictators, rulers rarely get a free run and so the internal conflicts rage on and on.
 
A very simplistic view point but this with every single spat being covered within hours highlights what a wonderful species humanity is. Do I see an end...........hell no if there is one thing history has shown us mankind has a taste for war and loves a good fight. So long as one person has something that the other wants or one group says that their god is better than your god we will always have the joy of war and conflict. Sad but true 
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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2014 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

 
A very simplistic view point but this with every single spat being covered within hours highlights what a wonderful species humanity is. Do I see an end...........hell no if there is one thing history has shown us mankind has a taste for war and loves a good fight. So long as one person has something that the other wants or one group says that their god is better than your god we will always have the joy of war and conflict. Sad but true 

Hard to disagree with the tribal nature of humanity although there are usually also a lot of people against those wars and the fighting as well. In an odd way I almost prefer people killing each other over things I have no relationship with or understanding of, i.e. religion, God etc, rather than things I do believe in and value. But it's the self-justification of this aspect of things that really sickens me to the very core and, as usual, a lot of innocent people get stuck in the middle and suffer a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2014 at 5:14pm
"But that's how we've always done it" is the most damaging sentence to human development.
Time the so called more developed countries pulled their fingers out of their arses and got involved for common good rather than oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2014 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

"But that's how we've always done it" is the most damaging sentence to human development.
Time the so called more developed countries pulled their fingers out of their arses and got involved for common good rather than oil.
But therein lies the problem, when does getting involved for the common good become interfering outsiders. As has been proved by Afghanistan, Iraq etc you side with one group it will annoy the other and so the misery goes on and the death toll rises.
In some ways you are better off letting them get on with it have an initial blood bath and let it settle it's natural course, a ruler emerges and happiness and light for 20yrs or so until they die or are deposed. A horrible statement but one that has proven to be successful over a couple of millenia.
The main issue in Iraq now though is not the oil (although it obviously plays a big part) it is the rise of I S they now are armed with american and european equipment from the Iraqi army, they have looted the banks in the cities they have smashed to the tune of £500, 000, 000 (ish) which should scare the living crap out of the rest of the world. They have the financial clout and the terror factor to destabalise the middle east. Don't be surprised to see them move accross Syria to Israel in the not to distant future. That then ladies and gents could be the nucleus for wholesale war in the middle east with the US and europe having to back Israel as their only foothold in that region. The next 6 months are going to be very scary
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