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Is America becoming a failed state?

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ap sior View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 January 2021 at 8:40pm
Unbelievable scenes in the Capitol Building in Washington. Shots have been fired by Trump supporters, police have drawn arms and used tear gas. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:31am
I am amazed that they only shot 1 person. The way the building was overan with all the senators in the chamber an unknown quantitiy storming the building (has an eerie similarity with the series Designated survivor!) I thought the police would have defended with full force. Terrorism doesnt always come from outside see Oklahoma bombing so am very surprised they only shot 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:45am
Trump has lost the Presidency, the Senate and the House in one term.
Good darts sir.

Edited by Wil Chips - 07 January 2021 at 7:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:46am
Absolutely disgraceful scenes all encouraged by Trump himself and his loathsome ally Rudy Guiliani who actually suggested to the crowd that they should make it a trial by combat. Trump has succeeded, in four short years, to destroy democracy in the USA. Both he and Guiliani should, but won't, be arrested and tried for incitement. 

The USA has many huge problems despite seeing itself as " the leaders of the free World". They have become a laughing stock worldwide with racism, gun control and lack of pandemic action leading to a hugely divided country. President elect Biden has a huge task on his hands. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:03am
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

I am amazed that they only shot 1 person. The way the building was overan with all the senators in the chamber an unknown quantitiy storming the building (has an eerie similarity with the series Designated survivor!) I thought the police would have defended with full force. Terrorism doesnt always come from outside see Oklahoma bombing so am very surprised they only shot 1

Probably because the mob was majority (all?) white, but that's a hypothetical. It could have been a lot worse - although I read they also planted pipe bombs as well?

This was an attempted coup, there's no other way to describe it. The 25th amendment is getting a lot of hits online right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:07am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Absolutely disgraceful scenes all encouraged by Trump himself and his loathsome ally Rudy Guiliani who actually suggested to the crowd that they should make it a trial by combat. Trump has succeeded, in four short years, to destroy democracy in the USA. Both he and Guiliani should, but won't, be arrested and tried for incitement. 

The USA has many huge problems despite seeing itself as " the leaders of the free World". They have become a laughing stock worldwide with racism, gun control and lack of pandemic action leading to a hugely divided country. President elect Biden has a huge task on his hands. 
I wouldn't be too sure about that gareth he has pissed off a lot of people at the top end of american politics and his phone call was illegal if he is not arrested for this i'm sure that the fuss about his financial dealings will be scrutinised even more thoroughly,certainly showed terrorists how easy it is to get through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:20am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Absolutely disgraceful scenes all encouraged by Trump himself and his loathsome ally Rudy Guiliani who actually suggested to the crowd that they should make it a trial by combat. Trump has succeeded, in four short years, to destroy democracy in the USA. Both he and Guiliani should, but won't, be arrested and tried for incitement. 

The USA has many huge problems despite seeing itself as " the leaders of the free World". They have become a laughing stock worldwide with racism, gun control and lack of pandemic action leading to a hugely divided country. President elect Biden has a huge task on his hands. 

Plus poverty. I invite you if you get a free moment to go on Googlemaps and "walk" around Skid Row, Los Angeles, a district right next to Downtown LA. Thinking about the US's biggest PR wing, Hollywood and the big TV studies, also being in the same city is strange but the key aspect about the US is an excellent self-selling ability: freedom and the American dream etc. The reality for most is very different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:46am
Biden confirmed as next President. Hopefully the madness can end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turkishrebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 9:38am
still 13 days for trump to do his madness. i was in that building last september on holidays, went for a tour there. and there were enough police officers there present to stop a crowd. very suspicious how the police allowed the crowd to get to the actual capitol building itslef (video of them moving barriers).

they should enact the 25the amendment but not sure if they have enough time to do it. but i think they will try, if they do do it it apparently stops him from running for any other post in the future which would scupper his re-election plans in 4 years.

if that crowd was black or brown you would have seen thousands of police officers on the roads. how come the police/national guard were so slow re-acting?  

america is a true mess, Biden has a massive job to just get some sort of sanity
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 10:54am
Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

still 13 days for trump to do his madness. i was in that building last september on holidays, went for a tour there. and there were enough police officers there present to stop a crowd. very suspicious how the police allowed the crowd to get to the actual capitol building itslef (video of them moving barriers).

they should enact the 25the amendment but not sure if they have enough time to do it. but i think they will try, if they do do it it apparently stops him from running for any other post in the future which would scupper his re-election plans in 4 years.

if that crowd was black or brown you would have seen thousands of police officers on the roads. how come the police/national guard were so slow re-acting?  

america is a true mess, Biden has a massive job to just get some sort of sanity

The problem with enacting the 25th Amendment I feel is that some of the Cabinet may want to run in 2024, there has been talk of Pence doing so. If Pence does enact the 25th, he would surely lose the support of the Trumpists should he run. It would also be ironic if Pence did push for the 25th as a few days ago he was reported as supporting Trump's claim,

Looking further forward to the future, this article, published a few days ago, lays out Biden's problem and indeed the US's problem going forward. (You may not be a Guardian reader but this is worth the read.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 11:27am
This is the sort of honesty that the US now needs,

Anthony Scaramucci, a former White House Communications director under Donald Trump, and now a staunch critic of the President, has been giving his reaction to events in Washington on BBC Radio 5 Live’s Wake Up to Money programme, calling it "a sad day for the United States" but "a predictable tragedy".

Mr Scaramucci famously served 11 days in the communications role before being fired in 2017. “I have to own this for the rest of my life. I normalised him and went to go work for him," he said.

He added: “Donald Trump has become a great unifying figure in the United States. We just happen to all be unifying against him.

“In my 57 years here on planet Earth, I cannot recall a singular moment where I agreed with Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden at the same time, but I did that today and I attribute that to the actions of Donald Trump'



Edited by ap sior - 07 January 2021 at 11:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 11:43am
Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 07 January 2021 at 11:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:01pm
Going back to the guardian article I referred to earlier, this is a worrying development. Are we ging the same way as the US ?????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
 
 
 
 
 

That may largely be explained where and what they are moving from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
 
 
 
 
 

That may largely be explained where and what they are moving from.
 
 
People migrate to the USA from all the world , uk , Ireland, france, aus,Canada etc 
 
It's not all 3rd world migration
 
 
People are free to leave the usa anytime they so wish, If  it is a failing state as some claim I'm sure well mass migration to far more prosperous nations ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
  

No one said rampant poverty so this is actually over the top. Failed state definitely is an exaggeration though! To clarify my poverty observation: I do think poverty and homelessness is a big issue in the states and you can see it in the cities (at least the ones I've been to). It's often on racial demographics as well and something like base level healthcare they have never addressed. Any politician that tries gets called a rabid socialist. The American Dream is also a survivor bias and ignores the millions who do not improve their lots so remain with very little. But the US has loads going for it, definitely. Look at these events: Trump's supporters tried something undemocratic but they got on with the vote and ruled the election result stands. Trump won't win. The US sets the agenda always due to its financial and military power, not to mention dominant media industry.

It's also a massive country, well collection of countries really, and laws, culture are very different in a state-by-state, city-by-city and county-by-county basis. I've visited several cities now and all have been very different from each other. Never seen small town or rural USA whatsoever.


Edited by dr_martinov - 07 January 2021 at 12:18pm
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