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Israel Folau

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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Don't think many have challenged his right to hold or speak those views, more that it is not acceptable for an employee of the ARU to be posting them and he was in breach of his contract. Seems as though he's chosen his faith over playing for the ARU, which is his decision and I respect even if I find his views unpleasant and my opinion is he should keep them to himself as they are offensive to a large number of people. Or he just wanted out of his contract to play League instead.

Funny thing with this is he's only 40 years out of date from his views being far more mainstream. Common belief is a curious thing. As is freedom of speech: some people seem to interpret this as a right to say whatever they wish without repercussion.

We should get Corbyn's view of Israel... That may help.



Great post. It's not a freedom of speech issue in this case because he signed a contract and breached the terms of that contract.

Another poster should beware that calling someone homophobic is a libellous slur, especially if unsubstantiated, as it is illegal to be homophobic in the UK.

It is interesting though that for years the Church's point of view on homosexuality was "you can have the thoughts and feelings but you can't act on them" don't lie with a man as you would a woman etc.

Now society is telling people with sincere religious view that "you can have those views, thoughts and feelings. You just can't express them" 

religion has a lot to answer for all over the world,always has and always will.

It does have a lot to answer for. Then again dont all massive institutions? The parliaments the BBC the police ? etc There is always a level of corruption. 

But institutional discrimination against gay people is something the Church has wrestled with for decades. The fact same sex marriage is legal shows things have progressed though and thats a good thing. Without wishing to get too theological. Even if you take every word of the Bible literally, which I do not. The rare and vague parts that may or may not relate to gay relationships in the new testament are rare comments are certainly ambiguous and open to interpretation. The book says a great deal more about love being the greatest of all things as well as faith hope and charity and perhaps we should all focus on those words more.

But the Churches do also carry out a phenomenal amount of good work too , raises billions and feeds and clothes and of millions of the poorest sickest and most vulnerable people across the world. Sadly all the vast amounts of good work gets lost in the bad stories. In the age of the internet surely instead of endlessly butting heads over these issues , surely the Church can be utilised better by the masses to fight against poverty and disease.  Even by atheists, agnostics and so on. 

I think the fall of Notre Dame will really hit home how sometimes we take these magnificent places for granted. Certainly in Llanelli many beautiful Churches have fallen into rack and ruin. What a waste. We're talking about an 850 year old masterpiece that took two centuries to build. To think of the numbers of people that place has inspired? How many have visited, how many have prayed and sang there, how many have married there , have been Christened there or have been buried there in all those centuries? How much art has been hung there? How much art has it inspired in the city of love? How has it inspired the rest of parisians architecture ? These cathedrals are magnificent inspiring places. The more inclusive the Church is the better. The more everyone feels a part of it and the more it can be utilised for a common good. I notice millions are already pouring in to help rebuild Notre Dame. Clap


Whilst many more worthy causes go without money. But that’s another debate.

The NHS spent over £50 million on breast enlargements a few years ago....Is that the best use of NHS tax payers money? Thats another debate too
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Don't think many have challenged his right to hold or speak those views, more that it is not acceptable for an employee of the ARU to be posting them and he was in breach of his contract. Seems as though he's chosen his faith over playing for the ARU, which is his decision and I respect even if I find his views unpleasant and my opinion is he should keep them to himself as they are offensive to a large number of people. Or he just wanted out of his contract to play League instead.

Funny thing with this is he's only 40 years out of date from his views being far more mainstream. Common belief is a curious thing. As is freedom of speech: some people seem to interpret this as a right to say whatever they wish without repercussion.

We should get Corbyn's view of Israel... That may help.



Great post. It's not a freedom of speech issue in this case because he signed a contract and breached the terms of that contract.

Another poster should beware that calling someone homophobic is a libellous slur, especially if unsubstantiated, as it is illegal to be homophobic in the UK.

It is interesting though that for years the Church's point of view on homosexuality was "you can have the thoughts and feelings but you can't act on them" don't lie with a man as you would a woman etc.

Now society is telling people with sincere religious view that "you can have those views, thoughts and feelings. You just can't express them" 

religion has a lot to answer for all over the world,always has and always will.

It does have a lot to answer for. Then again dont all massive institutions? The parliaments the BBC the police ? etc There is always a level of corruption. 

But institutional discrimination against gay people is something the Church has wrestled with for decades. The fact same sex marriage is legal shows things have progressed though and thats a good thing. Without wishing to get too theological. Even if you take every word of the Bible literally, which I do not. The rare and vague parts that may or may not relate to gay relationships in the new testament are rare comments are certainly ambiguous and open to interpretation. The book says a great deal more about love being the greatest of all things as well as faith hope and charity and perhaps we should all focus on those words more.

But the Churches do also carry out a phenomenal amount of good work too , raises billions and feeds and clothes and of millions of the poorest sickest and most vulnerable people across the world. Sadly all the vast amounts of good work gets lost in the bad stories. In the age of the internet surely instead of endlessly butting heads over these issues , surely the Church can be utilised better by the masses to fight against poverty and disease.  Even by atheists, agnostics and so on. 

I think the fall of Notre Dame will really hit home how sometimes we take these magnificent places for granted. Certainly in Llanelli many beautiful Churches have fallen into rack and ruin. What a waste. We're talking about an 850 year old masterpiece that took two centuries to build. To think of the numbers of people that place has inspired? How many have visited, how many have prayed and sang there, how many have married there , have been Christened there or have been buried there in all those centuries? How much art has been hung there? How much art has it inspired in the city of love? How has it inspired the rest of parisians architecture ? These cathedrals are magnificent inspiring places. The more inclusive the Church is the better. The more everyone feels a part of it and the more it can be utilised for a common good. I notice millions are already pouring in to help rebuild Notre Dame. Clap


Whilst many more worthy causes go without money. But that’s another debate.


The NHS spent over £50 million on breast enlargements a few years ago....Is that the best use of NHS tax payers money? Thats another debate too


For cosmetic purposes? That’s private care. I can’t see it on the NHS for cosmetics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Don't think many have challenged his right to hold or speak those views, more that it is not acceptable for an employee of the ARU to be posting them and he was in breach of his contract. Seems as though he's chosen his faith over playing for the ARU, which is his decision and I respect even if I find his views unpleasant and my opinion is he should keep them to himself as they are offensive to a large number of people. Or he just wanted out of his contract to play League instead.

Funny thing with this is he's only 40 years out of date from his views being far more mainstream. Common belief is a curious thing. As is freedom of speech: some people seem to interpret this as a right to say whatever they wish without repercussion.

We should get Corbyn's view of Israel... That may help.



Great post. It's not a freedom of speech issue in this case because he signed a contract and breached the terms of that contract.

Another poster should beware that calling someone homophobic is a libellous slur, especially if unsubstantiated, as it is illegal to be homophobic in the UK.

It is interesting though that for years the Church's point of view on homosexuality was "you can have the thoughts and feelings but you can't act on them" don't lie with a man as you would a woman etc.

Now society is telling people with sincere religious view that "you can have those views, thoughts and feelings. You just can't express them" 

religion has a lot to answer for all over the world,always has and always will.

It does have a lot to answer for. Then again dont all massive institutions? The parliaments the BBC the police ? etc There is always a level of corruption. 

But institutional discrimination against gay people is something the Church has wrestled with for decades. The fact same sex marriage is legal shows things have progressed though and thats a good thing. Without wishing to get too theological. Even if you take every word of the Bible literally, which I do not. The rare and vague parts that may or may not relate to gay relationships in the new testament are rare comments are certainly ambiguous and open to interpretation. The book says a great deal more about love being the greatest of all things as well as faith hope and charity and perhaps we should all focus on those words more.

But the Churches do also carry out a phenomenal amount of good work too , raises billions and feeds and clothes and of millions of the poorest sickest and most vulnerable people across the world. Sadly all the vast amounts of good work gets lost in the bad stories. In the age of the internet surely instead of endlessly butting heads over these issues , surely the Church can be utilised better by the masses to fight against poverty and disease.  Even by atheists, agnostics and so on. 

I think the fall of Notre Dame will really hit home how sometimes we take these magnificent places for granted. Certainly in Llanelli many beautiful Churches have fallen into rack and ruin. What a waste. We're talking about an 850 year old masterpiece that took two centuries to build. To think of the numbers of people that place has inspired? How many have visited, how many have prayed and sang there, how many have married there , have been Christened there or have been buried there in all those centuries? How much art has been hung there? How much art has it inspired in the city of love? How has it inspired the rest of parisians architecture ? These cathedrals are magnificent inspiring places. The more inclusive the Church is the better. The more everyone feels a part of it and the more it can be utilised for a common good. I notice millions are already pouring in to help rebuild Notre Dame. Clap


Whilst many more worthy causes go without money. But that’s another debate.


The NHS spent over £50 million on breast enlargements a few years ago....Is that the best use of NHS tax payers money? Thats another debate too


For cosmetic purposes? That’s private care. I can’t see it on the NHS for cosmetics.

Yeah cosmetic it was up to £60 million a few years ago, think theyve tightened up on it in recent years
In 2012-13, the NHS found the money to carry out 1,137 facelifts – costing taxpayers up to £8.5 million. Up to £52.5 million went on breast enlargementsand a record £10 million was spent on liposuction.5 Jul 2014

I cant find recent figures so theyre either buried or theyve curbed expenditure on this cosmetic surgery on the nhs


Edited by roy munster - 16 April 2019 at 1:46pm
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 1:45pm
Hats off to the 500 firefighters at the Notre Dame too, astonishing bravery to tackle such a blaze in such a massive a structure thats collapsing around them , 1 is seriously injured sadly , lets hope he pulls through
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Folau is an international rugby player. An inspiration to alot of younger fans and a role model. By allowing him to get away with this then its allowing youngsters to think it's okay to hate gay people. ... He is entitled to his opinion but why feel the need to broadcast it like he did...
It could also be said that the way it's been handled the rugby community has said to it's young followers that perfectly acceptable to abuse people who express religious views. 
No not really.

Falau has shown hostility towards gays for no other reason than that they are gay. In this country, it could potentially be reported as a hate crime - thats the message.  

An honest question, what is a hate crime and how does it differ from "opinion currently unfashionable"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Folau is an international rugby player. An inspiration to alot of younger fans and a role model. By allowing him to get away with this then its allowing youngsters to think it's okay to hate gay people. ... He is entitled to his opinion but why feel the need to broadcast it like he did...
It could also be said that the way it's been handled the rugby community has said to it's young followers that perfectly acceptable to abuse people who express religious views. 
No not really.

Falau has shown hostility towards gays for no other reason than that they are gay. In this country, it could potentially be reported as a hate crime - thats the message.  

An honest question, what is a hate crime and how does it differ from "opinion currently unfashionable"?
My understanding is that a hate crime is an act of hostility directed at people because of who they are.  Not sure if Falau's tweet would actually be classed as a hate crime but it must come pretty close.

Not sure what 'opinion currently unfashionable' is, but a hate crime is specific to categories of people that are defined in law and not subject to fashionable opinions of the day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Folau is an international rugby player. An inspiration to alot of younger fans and a role model. By allowing him to get away with this then its allowing youngsters to think it's okay to hate gay people. ... He is entitled to his opinion but why feel the need to broadcast it like he did...
It could also be said that the way it's been handled the rugby community has said to it's young followers that perfectly acceptable to abuse people who express religious views. 
No not really.

Falau has shown hostility towards gays for no other reason than that they are gay. In this country, it could potentially be reported as a hate crime - thats the message.  

An honest question, what is a hate crime and how does it differ from "opinion currently unfashionable"?
My understanding is that a hate crime is an act of hostility directed at people because of who they are.  Not sure if Falau's tweet would actually be classed as a hate crime but it must come pretty close.

Not sure what 'opinion currently unfashionable' is, but a hate crime is specific to categories of people that are defined in law and not subject to fashionable opinions of the day.

The police record hate crime on the figures regardless if it is true or not, proven or not

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2019 at 4:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2019 at 11:22am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Folau is an international rugby player. An inspiration to alot of younger fans and a role model. By allowing him to get away with this then its allowing youngsters to think it's okay to hate gay people. ... He is entitled to his opinion but why feel the need to broadcast it like he did...
It could also be said that the way it's been handled the rugby community has said to it's young followers that perfectly acceptable to abuse people who express religious views. 
No not really.

Falau has shown hostility towards gays for no other reason than that they are gay. In this country, it could potentially be reported as a hate crime - thats the message.  

An honest question, what is a hate crime and how does it differ from "opinion currently unfashionable"?

It's a fair question - here is the definition as provided by the CPS website:

"The term 'hate crime' can be used to describe a range of criminal behaviour where the perpetrator is motivated by hostility or demonstrates hostility towards the victim's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

These aspects of a person's identity are known as 'protected characteristics'. A hate crime can include verbal abuse, intimidation, threats, harassment, assault and bullying, as well as damage to property."


I suppose as others say, it's where you show hostility to people because of who or what they are, and not because of something they've done to harm others. It is a tricky one, though.

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