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Leinster v Scarlets match thread...

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PearlJam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 11:45am
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:

Uncle Joe telling the Irish sides they can't play their internationals at certain periods, often when they're playing away at another Irish side, certainly spreads the points round the 4 and makes them "competitive".

Can I just quote a BBC article from the Munster v Leinster Boxing Day game from 2016. What should have been a fantastically competitive game had this rider on it:

"The home side looked to have the stronger hand heading into the Boxing Day derby as they included front-line Ireland stars Conor Murray, Zebo, Stander, Donnacha Ryan and Peter O'Mahony.

In contrast, Leinster were without Jamie Heaslip, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Devin Toner, Sean O'Brien, Josh van der Flier and Garry Ringrose although Robbie Henshaw and Tadhg Furlong did start for Leo Cullen's side."

Can you imagine a Boxing Day derby where the WRU pulled that shait out of the bag? Embarrassing.

They pulled it out of the bag this weekend!


Ai, Leinster were excellent, but that's missing the point.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 1:34pm
Were the injured or just pulled out, before passing too much comments one should find out why they were not playing.

I think they were allowed to play 1 game over Christmas and it was up to the region which one.


Edited by Dai38 - 06 March 2017 at 1:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote InTheBath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Were the injured or just pulled out, before passing too much comments one should find out why they were not playing.

I think they were allowed to play 1 game over Christmas and it was up to the region which one.



So Uncle Joe was interfering then? Glad we cleared that up

As an aside, Leinster's development (even taking into account their population and money) is really excellent. They're the benchmark in the Pro12 at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 2:39pm
Similar to Wales except we are down to X games.

We also need to think:-

a-Why do they keep all their players
b-Why is the international side better than Wales
c-Why are their regions consistently better than Welsh Regions (except possibly Ospreys) I honestly honestly hope this is not a one off for us
d-Why have they been so successful in Europe

I would give a week team against the Ospreys if I had the above return.

This is only a hypothetical question as the answers would cover pages and pages, and cover all sorts of issues. 
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 4:20pm
Well, it was too painful to read all your comments... I'll just say 'hats off to Leinster', who were absolutely superb on the day. In some ways, that's not as bad (for me) as losing a game we 'should' have won. I must admit, they were much stronger than I expected.

No doubt others have suggested ways in which we could have made a closer game of it... the one thing I noticed was how much better Leinster used the wind... first half, high box kicks to allow pressure on the chaser; second half, as soon as you have the ball, bang it miles downfield to gain territory. Scarlets KOs early in the second half were way too long - into their 22, which allowed them to kick it back - we needed shorter KOs to compete for the ball, and at least prevent the kick direct to touch from inside the 22.

Anyway - let's forget about that one, and look forward to the next game, with 'lessons learnt'.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Micro Duck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 4:35pm
From what I can see, Ireland's union doesn't contract that many players. 

You have to secure a consistent, starting position in the national team for the IRFU to contract you - which isn't the same as here in Wales. The likes of Tyler Morgan, Rory Thornton and Dan Baker have picked up WRU deals without nailing down a regular place in the matchday squad.

In Ireland, the numbers on central contracts have gone up and down over the years, from 20 down to 12. Around 14 players are currently on central contracts in Ireland.

The rest are contracted by their provinces.

France would like to centrally contract 40 players. Good luck with that one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 4:53pm
On a side note, and as an example of what we are facing in terms of budget and squad depth, Leinster are signing Fardy and James Lowe for next season, the best aussie blindside and a very good winger. 

Edited by Exkixu - 06 March 2017 at 4:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:

Uncle Joe telling the Irish sides they can't play their internationals at certain periods, often when they're playing away at another Irish side, certainly spreads the points round the 4 and makes them "competitive".

Can I just quote a BBC article from the Munster v Leinster Boxing Day game from 2016. What should have been a fantastically competitive game had this rider on it:

"The home side looked to have the stronger hand heading into the Boxing Day derby as they included front-line Ireland stars Conor Murray, Zebo, Stander, Donnacha Ryan and Peter O'Mahony.

In contrast, Leinster were without Jamie Heaslip, Sean Cronin, Jack McGrath, Devin Toner, Sean O'Brien, Josh van der Flier and Garry Ringrose although Robbie Henshaw and Tadhg Furlong did start for Leo Cullen's side."

Can you imagine a Boxing Day derby where the WRU pulled that shait out of the bag? Embarrassing.

They pulled it out of the bag this weekend!


Ai, Leinster were excellent, but that's missing the point.

No. WRU pulled that Sh!t I mean. They didn't release anyone to us but they did to Ospreys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

From what I can see, Ireland's union doesn't contract that many players. 

You have to secure a consistent, starting position in the national team for the IRFU to contract you - which isn't the same as here in Wales. The likes of Tyler Morgan, Rory Thornton and Dan Baker have picked up WRU deals without nailing down a regular place in the matchday squad.

In Ireland, the numbers on central contracts have gone up and down over the years, from 20 down to 12. Around 14 players are currently on central contracts in Ireland.

The rest are contracted by their provinces.

France would like to centrally contract 40 players. Good luck with that one!
IRFU and the provinces are the same thing. IRFU pay the vast majority of professional players at all 4 regions. That's why they, not Ulster wouldn't renew Piennar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote InTheBath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Similar to Wales except we are down to X games.

We also need to think:-

a-Why do they keep all their players
b-Why is the international side better than Wales
c-Why are their regions consistently better than Welsh Regions (except possibly Ospreys) I honestly honestly hope this is not a one off for us
d-Why have they been so successful in Europe

I would give a week team against the Ospreys if I had the above return.

This is only a hypothetical question as the answers would cover pages and pages, and cover all sorts of issues. 


More people and more money. None of that guarantees success and they're doing a very good job in Leinster, but compared to us they're miles ahead - they have been for about 10 years and will be for the foreseeable future. They're going from strength to strength, we're just about surviving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 6:25pm
IRFU and provinces funding protocol is as elusive a document as Donald Trump's tax returns...and probably about as hard to decipher should they ever see the light of day.

But the building blocks are much better and far more sustainable than ours..
-3 provinces and a development 4th province that only received comparable funding when it was merited and/or affordable.
-a significant Govt incentive that effectively gave Irish players a full tax rebate if they stayed in the country for a minimum of 10 years.
-effective governance of the league, and until recently Euro rugby, that also put them in the box seat for for maximising tv revenues and attractive fixture planning.
-business leaders from the off, putting professional business decisions before emotional linkages, avoidance of large scale borrowing ( a la the MS)
-trapping municipal and federal funding for ground development and expansion.



Edited by Wil Chips - 06 March 2017 at 6:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 6:45pm
The playing field in the Pro 12, far from being level, has got a slant in it as big as Constitution Hill!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 8:50pm
Even taking into account Saturday's result, I still maintain that Scarlets benefit from the international window more than most teams do - the 2nd string team compete better against their counterparts from the likes of Munster and Glasgow than the 1st string team usually would, while the teams in the bottom half of the Pro 12 table have such poor strength-in-depth that Scarlets can walk over them anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 9:40pm
It's only recently that we've upped our strength in the International windows. Anything we've achieved in the last few years has been by strength of character and team spirit, allied to coaching/playing heads up, successfully.

More often than not, I remember watching the matches and being there in hope rather than expectation.

My opinion, fwiw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2017 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Similar to Wales except we are down to X games.

We also need to think:-

a-Why do they keep all their players
b-Why is the international side better than Wales
c-Why are their regions consistently better than Welsh Regions (except possibly Ospreys) I honestly honestly hope this is not a one off for us
d-Why have they been so successful in Europe

I would give a week team against the Ospreys if I had the above return.

This is only a hypothetical question as the answers would cover pages and pages, and cover all sorts of issues. 

Ireland have benefited a lot more from rugby union's move to professionalism than have Wales.  Its four provincial teams already had a history dating back to the late 19th century, so it was just a case of professionalising them and concentrating their best players in them.  They have been the springboard for Irish success at all levels, and they had already existing fanbases which they could grow with more regular rugby than just the Irish Interprovincial Championship and the odd game against an SH team.   In contrast, Wales for the first decade or so of professionalism clung onto its club system even as it was proving to be increasingly uncompetitive and costly for what is ultimately one of the smallest and poorest countries in Europe, and moreover dispersed its player base too much.  The move towards semi-regional teams in 2003 was meant to rectify or at least modify the above problems, though imo they are still a work in progress and I don't know if/when they'll eventually be as good as their Irish counterparts.  All the same, it cannot be denied that, for all their faults, the semi-regional teams and Pro 12 league have coincided with rather more success for the national team than the utterly barren years of the 90's and early 00's, precisely in part because the players are more concentrated and in a more constantly and genuinely competitive environment than they would be in the Welsh Premiership.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Airdaa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2017 at 11:45pm
Will a couple of corrections to your thread,
Firstly the tax incentive only applies to the three provinces in the Republic, Ulster based in Belfast have exactly the same tax arrangements as Llanelli,
You are correct in that the Irfu managed to minimise there financial committment to the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road by selling Ten year tickets and inviting the Football Association of Ireland to come into the Staduim Management Company. However as far as I know they retained the ownership of the actual site, and they also got support from the Irish Government.
An International weekend in Dublin produces a massive boost to the Dublin economy. Hence the support.
The question of international contracts is that the IRFU have a limited number, but all players are contracted to the Irfu but some have lesser Provincial contracts.
Every Province is a Branch of the IRFU and therefore answerable to the IRFU. Whilst each province are free to recruit any player, there are limits to the number of Non Irish Qualified players and all signings must be cleared by Dublin.
This is not always available as shown by Pinnear being refused to Ulster, even though both the player and Province were happy to renew his contract.
With regard to the strength of Provincial teams over Christmas, the Irish Management dictate how many matches the Irish squad can play over the holiday period. The Provinces traditionally sellout there home games,because schools are off and a lot of exiles are home and go to games to meet up with old friends etc. So to maximise this market they play there strongest team at home and send there reduced team to the away match. For a number of years Ulster played both Leinster and Munster always two hard games where as the the other two played each other and also Connacht which was serious gripe.
That would be similar to every Chritsmas period the Scarlets playing Osprey and the Blue's whilst te other two played each other and the Dragons
The attendance at provincial matches with the exception of touring sides from SH could be quite sparse, but the ERC really brought the crowds in and the IRFU recognised this, and had a policy to promote the provinces in order to keep up their International profile and consequently their revenue.
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