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Lions team vs. All Blacks (third test)

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Mogwen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 7:42am
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Having watched it on slow motion a number of times, it comes off Sanjays shoulder moving towards the lions line so no knock on. It is then caught by Ken who has been running towards the lions line, closer to the line than when it comes off Sanjay so there is no case to even discuss. I think all that was missed in the heat of the moment but it did deny us possession and gave them a scrum which was incorrect.


The angle the ball bounced looks like ried had his hand on the ball. If it came off Sanjay then it was a penalty as ken moved his hand towards the ball.
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Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Having watched it on slow motion a number of times, it comes off Sanjays shoulder moving towards the lions line so no knock on. It is then caught by Ken who has been running towards the lions line, closer to the line than when it comes off Sanjay so there is no case to even discuss. I think all that was missed in the heat of the moment but it did deny us possession and gave them a scrum which was incorrect.


The angle the ball bounced looks like ried had his hand on the ball. If it came off Sanjay then it was a penalty as ken moved his hand towards the ball.
I think supertafs point is that the ball didn't go forward off Sanjay, it went backwrds.  If this was the case then it was impossible for it to be a penalty as Ken caught the ball behind the point from which it was touched by Sanjay.  The fact that he was in front of Sanjay is then surely irrelevant.  

So how did the ball look as if it went forward from Sanjay?  Read on, it's all to do with where Sanjay touched the ball in the air and where he ended up on the floor.

As for the potential foul in the air on Sanjay - the clip shows Sanjay jumping vertically and then after the collision he moved a few metres backwards horizontally in the air until he came to rest on the floor.  Newton's first law of motion states that every object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless compelled to change its state by the action of an external force.  If Sanjay hadn't been interfered with in the air, Newton's first law dictates that he would surely have continued to move upwards in a straight line and then  come to ground roughly in the same spot where he took off from.  Looked a definite foul to me.



Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 09 July 2017 at 9:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 9:44am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Guys, Ken caught the ball, it didn't hit him...he then decided to drop it knowing the issue. It was a penalty all day long...the ref gave a penalty...only Warburton's superb intervention, and Poite's lack of conviction, turned it to accidental offside.

The AB's will feel hard done by last week with the 'technical' interpretation around the 'aerial' tackle by Fa'aiamouina (spelling) costing them the game, and now this.

What the Lions have to be given every credit for is taking the last 2 games to one score affairs.

Foxy was a class apart on tour for me. It's the best rugby of his career...and I raise you this....would he have been able to reach those standards had he not re-joined the Scarlets?

Thats a very interesting question. Foxy was indeed a class apart from all centres on show & has taken his game to another level. We all saw this coming in the way he built his performances after the 6 nations for the Scarlets. Our gameplan asked him to get in the outside 15 metre channel & exploit the ability of our back 3. Defensively he was also relied on to lead our defence from that channel. Since March we have seen a Foxy who I never saw play for Clermont so I think we have to give great credit to the Scarlets coaches as well as Foxy of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 July 2017 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Guys, Ken caught the ball, it didn't hit him...he then decided to drop it knowing the issue. It was a penalty all day long...the ref gave a penalty...only Warburton's superb intervention, and Poite's lack of conviction, turned it to accidental offside.

The AB's will feel hard done by last week with the 'technical' interpretation around the 'aerial' tackle by Fa'aiamouina (spelling) costing them the game, and now this.

What the Lions have to be given every credit for is taking the last 2 games to one score affairs.

Foxy was a class apart on tour for me. It's the best rugby of his career...and I raise you this....would he have been able to reach those standards had he not re-joined the Scarlets?

You know, when it happened I thought so, too... but those who know the laws far better than I do disagree. This is an excellent explanation of the ref's decision:


The author's main point is as follows:

"(The ref opted) for 11.7, Offside at a knock on:

When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage. 

Poite deemed that no advantage was gained."

I think that is fair enough - when you look at it, when Ken catches, then immediately drops, the ball, there are no ABs near enough to get the ball themselves. The ball probably ends up more or less where it would have done, had it simply hit Ken in the chest, so 'no advantage was gained'.

Others have also pointed out that there was no knock on - and having watched the video multiple times, I agree with them. Using the Standard Life logo as a guide (it is roughly parallel to the touchlines) Liam first touches the ball level with the 'L' of life - Ken catches it level with the 'r', so the ball must have travelled backwards towards the Lions' goal line. The optical illusion occurs because Reid knocks Liam backwards by several metres! If there was no knock on, there was no offside, and no penalty.


I also think that the laws should be rewritten to make it clear that if a player jumps into another in these circumstances and FAILS to touch the ball - as in Reid's case - it should automatically be a penalty against - otherwise, it's win-win - you either win the ball, or knock seven bells out of the 'catcher', and cause chaos. Hardly fair.


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Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2017 at 8:35am
Anyway, Read was a mile offside at the KO so should have been a penalty to Lions on half way. 
That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
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