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National Dual Contracts?

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knutsfordlion View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 March 2017 at 4:42pm
Just wondering how often these are reviewed?
I know Dan Lydiate had his renewed quite recently.
 
Why?
 
What is the purpose of them, when Scott Williams has to be paid in full by us when he is going to part of the Wales team for a good while to come, whilst Lydiate is over and done with as far as International honours is concerned, when you bear in mind the back row players now available.
 
I just find the balance baffling with some Regions having loads which include fringe players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2017 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by knutsfordlion knutsfordlion wrote:

Just wondering how often these are reviewed?
I know Dan Lydiate had his renewed quite recently.
 
Why?
 
What is the purpose of them, when Scott Williams has to be paid in full by us when he is going to part of the Wales team for a good while to come, whilst Lydiate is over and done with as far as International honours is concerned, when you bear in mind the back row players now available.
 
I just find the balance baffling with some Regions having loads which include fringe players.
Not to worry. They'll all be allocated to NGD from now on Dead
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2017 at 11:48pm
Dan Lydiate is out injured for the season, but he will be back.  It was the Scarlets themselves who decided to re-sign Scott on a conventional contract, when the WRU were perfectly happy to offer a new NDC.  Anyway, notwithstanding some odd cases like Dan Baker and Rory Thornton, most NDCs are for what are regarded as key players who the WRU either want to retain or bring back.  Sorry to say, but the reason why the Ospreys have more than most is because they have been the most successful Welsh regional team and have produced by some distance the most Welsh internationals of the four teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mundoscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 March 2017 at 11:56pm
They pulled Scott's offer I believe after the Ospreys tapped Him up. Hardly our fault and the certain side from over the bridge upto mischief
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 12:06am
strange theres been no talk of these for a good while
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2ndtimeround Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 9:42am
Originally posted by najbritcol najbritcol wrote:

Dan Lydiate is out injured for the season, but he will be back.  It was the Scarlets themselves who decided to re-sign Scott on a conventional contract, when the WRU were perfectly happy to offer a new NDC.  Anyway, notwithstanding some odd cases like Dan Baker and Rory Thornton, most NDCs are for what are regarded as key players who the WRU either want to retain or bring back.  Sorry to say, but the reason why the Ospreys have more than most is because they have been the most successful Welsh regional team and have produced by some distance the most Welsh internationals of the four teams.


Without actually counting I'm pretty sure there are as many Scarlets in the side as Ospreys and the next largest group are non Wales based players. The Ospreys provided the majority of the squad a few seasons back but a fair few of them had been developed elsewhere, our Academy more than does it's fair share of bringing through future international's.
The Ospreys were the ones that started a bidding war over Scott resulting in the NDC been withdrawn and have been rewarded with even more of the DC pot as a result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 9:46am
Najbritcol you are not a reborn version of wet weather winger by any chance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 11:00am
Originally posted by najbritcol najbritcol wrote:

Dan Lydiate is out injured for the season, but he will be back.  It was the Scarlets themselves who decided to re-sign Scott on a conventional contract, when the WRU were perfectly happy to offer a new NDC.  Anyway, notwithstanding some odd cases like Dan Baker and Rory Thornton, most NDCs are for what are regarded as key players who the WRU either want to retain or bring back.  Sorry to say, but the reason why the Ospreys have more than most is because they have been the most successful Welsh regional team and have produced by some distance the most Welsh internationals of the four teams.


Ah, Rory Thornton. Been on an NDC since October 2015. How many caps has he got?
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LLANDRE View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 11:29am
The National contracts were initially supposed to be given to players that remained in Wales and not given to players who go out of Wales and come back. Unless they do Gatlands law propely there is always going to be ambiguity on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 1:08pm
The Ospreys like to measure their success in relation to team Wales and the allocation of NDC's against players that have represented Wales since the inception of the regions back in 2003, 14 years ago when guys like Emyr Lewis were still playing for us, it's not really relevant bearing in mind the first NDC was in 2014, over a decade after people use the measurement against, but that's the measure that suits them best and why not use it I suppose when you don't get challenged on it.
 
Personally I'm concerned (and probably the regions are too) about the impact on the region of the number of players unavailable due to being in the Wales squad which is linked to the players regularly starting and deserving of a NDC. As most contract cycles are 2 to 3 years the furthest back you can really consider how justified the allocation of NDC's is 2014, coincidently when the 1st NDC was signed.
 
I think there are 16 players on NDC's, the current split by representation in the squad since 2014 should be:
 
Ospreys: 6
Scarlets: 5
Blues: 4
Dragons: 1
 
The actual split is:
 
Ospreys: 9
Scarlets: 3
Blues: 2
Dragons: 2
 
So the Ospreys aren't contributing significantly more to Welsh rugby than the Scarlets, they're not even that far ahead of the Blues, the only significant contribution is the WRU's £££££££ to the Ospreys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 1:09pm
Anyway NDC's aren't working, they need a complete rethink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 1:49pm
They clearly aren't working, if you want a 'fair' distribution, the struggling teams should get more to help them improve performance. If your doing it on merit you need to look at those players in the Wales squad. In reality its some horrible decision making on the WRU's part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 1:50pm
Next thing you'll see is the Ospreys getting a bumper 5 year NDC for Kellan Giles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Next thing you'll see is the Ospreys getting a bumper 5 year NDC for Kellan Giles
With his injury record that should cover him for maybe 10 games WinkLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 2:19pm
To say they aren't working at all is wrong. It has helped to keep some players in Wales. However like most people on here I agree that they need to look at them in a more orderly way. It seems very hap hazard at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2017 at 2:26pm
I can think of 8/9 flankers I would pick ahead of Dan Lydiate in the Welsh team in all honesty.
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