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nuclear defence?

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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: nuclear defence?
    Posted: 29 July 2017 at 1:31pm
Bit of a heavy topic for a saturday afternoon...But a headline story in todays news about North Korean nuclear progress and the lack of defence from the west is quite alarming

The west spends trillions on 1000s of nuclear missiles, but it seems we spend a relatively miniscule amount on nuclear defence...Reading this report it seems we have no sure fire way of bringing down a missile that is heading our way....Surely to goodness as well as nuclear disarmourment, with threats coming from all angles, including the korean dangerman, isnt it high time the west come together to pool their resources to create and build a more comprehensive defence system...Your thoughts?
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40492702


Edited by roy munster - 31 July 2017 at 10:58am
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najbritcol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2017 at 10:23pm
The West already has one - it is called NATO! (Btw, it should have been disbanded years ago, when the USSR collapsed).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2017 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by najbritcol najbritcol wrote:

The West already has one - it is called NATO! (Btw, it should have been disbanded years ago, when the USSR collapsed).
Say that to Ukraine which has had part of it's country annexed by the Russians. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland have all put their military on high alert due to the rhetoric that is coming from Putin...
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2017 at 6:45pm
on the point of defence against missiles, both USA and Israel have anti missile systems, with USA stationing theirs in Turkey.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2017 at 7:20pm
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2017 at 9:22pm
The quicker North Korea develop a system capable of hitting Washington the safer they and the world will be.  "Exceptionalist USA" thinks that only it should have nuclear weapons and that it should be able to dictate to other countries what is acceptable.  The only danger will come if the Americans try to take out the Korean weapons before they become fully operational.
They can already hit S. Korea, Japan etc, but since when has the USA worried about casualties in other countries, They are a barbarous and immoral regime thto wages war continuously, usually by missiles or bombing from a great height where they are unlikely to experience many casualties, and they are the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons (twice on the undefended civilian populations of a defeated nation ready to surrender) North Korea has developed its ICBM,s and nuclear warheads to prevent being subjected to what happened to Iraq, Libya, Vietnam etc  and a repeat of the million dead that the West inflicted on it in the 1950s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2017 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The quicker North Korea develop a system capable of hitting Washington the safer they and the world will be.  "Exceptionalist USA" thinks that only it should have nuclear weapons and that it should be able to dictate to other countries what is acceptable.  The only danger will come if the Americans try to take out the Korean weapons before they become fully operational.
They can already hit S. Korea, Japan etc, but since when has the USA worried about casualties in other countries, They are a barbarous and immoral regime thto wages war continuously, usually by missiles or bombing from a great height where they are unlikely to experience many casualties, and they are the only country ever to have used nuclear weapons (twice on the undefended civilian populations of a defeated nation ready to surrender) North Korea has developed its ICBM,s and nuclear warheads to prevent being subjected to what happened to Iraq, Libya, Vietnam etc  and a repeat of the million dead that the West inflicted on it in the 1950s.

As uncomfortable as I feel about the North Korean regime I have to agree with Ffidel about the stance of the USA & all other countries who possess Nuclear arms. Why do they feel only they should have the right to them? the USA with Trump at the helm is an accident waiting to happen. This will end badly I'm afraid. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2017 at 4:28pm
I copied the following from the discussion forum of a website called Information Clearing House which  contains many little facts that the BBC and western media either do not know about (because they are lazy and don't do any research- but are willing to accept without question whatever the US govt 
tells them) OR they do know, and choose not to use because it will ruin the image they are trying to promote -that the US and NATO are the good guys that we must follow as blindly as our governments.

 
North Korea signed an agreement with the Clinton administration to halt nuclear weapons development in exchange for lifting economic sanctions, for investments, for U.S. support of negotiations with South Korea leading to eventual normalization. North Korea did abide by the agreement.

 But as soon as the GW Bush administration came into power the new president canceled the agreement unilaterally. He also canceled the ABM treaty with Russia unilaterally. He and his Neocon pals want to maintain conflict with NK and Russia.

 North Korea proceeded to restart defense development after the Bush cancellation. The repercussions are today's dangerous situations in the Middle East and Asia, No powers will trust the American leadership for security agreement again.


Edited by Ffidel Bennett - 31 July 2017 at 4:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vulcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 5:36am
Anyone can post anything on the web.
I expect that a lot of "good" or "bad" countries post misinformation on it, perhaps even rugby management does on times.
My 24 years in the R.N. saw me being P.V.'d on 2 occasions, as far as I know I am still subject to the Official Secrets Act. I also signed a document, on discharge, agreeing to inform the M.O.D. Of any visits to "unfriendly " countries I wanted to visit.
I expect that still applies to people leaving thr Armed Forces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 6:47am
Vulcan. Are you suggesting that the above contribution from Information Clearing House is made up? If so it should be quite easy to check that the two agreements quoted were in fact cancelled unilaterally by baby Bush as stated. Although the servile Western media is highly unlikely to publicize it as it casts the hypocritical West in a bad light.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vulcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 10:21am
I don't know the background of ICH.
When I took my O.U. Degree I had to research things I wrote to guarantee that what I wrote was factual.
If I wrote what you posted my tutor would have gone banana's
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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 11:28am
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

on the point of defence against missiles, both USA and Israel have anti missile systems, with USA stationing theirs in Turkey.

How effective are they?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2017 at 11:48am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

on the point of defence against missiles, both USA and Israel have anti missile systems, with USA stationing theirs in Turkey.

How effective are they?
thankfully they haven't been put to the test yet.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2017 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Vulcan Vulcan wrote:

I don't know the background of ICH.
When I took my O.U. Degree I had to research things I wrote to guarantee that what I wrote was factual.
If I wrote what you posted my tutor would have gone banana's

Which part do you disagree with or think is wrong? Do some research on who and when both agreements were cancelled  if you think that the Information Clearing House quote is wrong.
Since when does the Main Stream Media give guarantees that that what they say is factual? 
Let's face it the reason you think that the ICH comment is wrong is because you probably only watch listen to  the mainstream media who only repeat what their governments would like you to hear.
What channel or paper  makes the case that North Korea needs nuclear weapons to defend themselves so that they don't end up like Libya, Iraq or that they aren't again bombed back into the stone-age as they were by the west in the 1950s?

For those who perhaps only watch, listen to, or read from the mainstream media here are antidotes from two award winning journalists 





Edited by Ffidel Bennett - 08 August 2017 at 8:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scarlet O'Hara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2017 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by Vulcan Vulcan wrote:

Anyone can post anything on the web.
I expect that a lot of "good" or "bad" countries post misinformation on it, perhaps even rugby management does on times.
My 24 years in the R.N. saw me being P.V.'d on 2 occasions, as far as I know I am still subject to the Official Secrets Act. I also signed a document, on discharge, agreeing to inform the M.O.D. Of any visits to "unfriendly " countries I wanted to visit.
I expect that still applies to people leaving thr Armed Forces.

This applies to all civil servants. Also visits to certain countries you were supposed to ask permission before you went. 
Back in the day you signed the OSA in triplicate and you were well aware of what you were signing, now it's just part of the contract and people just sign without realising.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2017 at 9:03pm
Can't say I've seen a better analysis of the current Korean "crisis" than the one shown in the link below, but if the UK and US insist that nuclear weapons are vital for their security and independence, isn't it gross hypocrisy for them to insist that N Korea (which was bombed back to the stone age by America and its allies in the fifties ,losing 20% of it's population and without a building of importance or even hospitals or dams left standing) should not have the means to deter such barbarity. Since the second world war the USA has invaded , bombed or sent proxy terrorists into many weaker countries but it hasn't attacked a nuclear armed country. Simple lesson there I think.
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