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Number 8's

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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 August 2017 at 9:52am
Interested to note that the average weight of the number 8's on show across the 4 teams in the rugby championship yesterday was 103kg..that's less than Foxy.

Kieran Reid being the biggest at 110kg.

Seems to suggest a drift towards a more athletic robust 8 ( a la Faletau), and away from being the big ball 'carrier' of the team e.g. Picamoles, Vinuipola.


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Tim Opolis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 10:19am
What position did you play again Wil? #loveshisnumber8'ssohedoes

Good stuff. Point, researched and proven. Anorak (with a number 8 on the back) is in the post. Wink
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Tim Opolis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 10:43am
Having said that....On a pis*y, poo*y horrible wet and windy night in Winter, which sadly we get plenty of, I would like us to be able to take the chains off a big beast of an 8 and let him loose to do the dirty stuff. One of 'those' nights against Toulon for example and the only chink in our squads armour 'could' be exposed.

I know we did ok there last year but we were lucky with injuries to Barclay and Boyde. Condy is a dog fairplay to him. It could be that a lot will depend on how he goes this year.

When you look at the squad as a whole in recent years we've had little chinks across a few positons. This isnt so now, but is 8 one of those positions that we 'may' be found out at come Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 10:54am
Therein lies a debate that has been raging on this forum for some time. I still have high hopes for Condy along with McLoud. It would be a huge boost for us if one or both made out a resounding case for inclusion in our strongest 23. 

Wil's point is very interesting - I would have had Read down as bigger than 17 stone. The future of Moriarty will start to focus attention come Xmas time. He certainly won't be short of offers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 11:09am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Therein lies a debate that has been raging on this forum for some time. I still have high hopes for Condy along with McLoud. It would be a huge boost for us if one or both made out a resounding case for inclusion in our strongest 23. 

Wil's point is very interesting - I would have had Read down as bigger than 17 stone. The future of Moriarty will start to focus attention come Xmas time. He certainly won't be short of offers. 


Know of 2 English sides who despite officially not being allowed to speak to Glaws before October have already made their interest clear. If it comes to a bidding war we've no chance. But if Ross himself fancies being looked after for a change, then an NDC with us surely has some appeal. And we play a style of rugby he likes. He's not that big lump many have called for, but quick, tough as teak and aggressive, he'd be a natural fit for us.
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 11:25am
Maybe its a supply and demand thing....we've tried to get what is about in Wales and given them a go, like Pitman and Allen ( who are in the 115-120kg category), brought (affordable) guys in, but that didn't work out either. (I'm not mentioning his name as he was a shocker!).

I was always a fan of a destructive carrier at 8, but I can just see that teams are gradually drifting towards the leaner/more robust/ athletic guys...don't get me wrong I'd love the likes of Billy V with us, but the more I look at it the more I see him as almost the last of generation of that type of 8...all the others are in their 30's (Reid, Picamoles, Waldrom, Parisse, Nick Williams etc).

And then I see young guys, maybe over-hyped because they fit that template, not really making sufficient impression to become regular first choice at their club (like Baker at the O's and the lad at the drags, sorry forget his name), and losing their shirt to ex flankers or smaller 8's.

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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 11:26am
Ross is very much in the newer template really - 105kg ish...very dynamic and pacey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dantheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 1:18pm
I think there are a few reasons why in the SH and parts of the NH the trend is for smaller more mobile 8s.

The quality of pitches and subsequent increase in pace of the game has to be one of them.

The dynamics of the player market is another. If you look at the Top 14 that is full of huge ball carrying 8s and flankers. They clearly value them highly which means that teams in the SH and the NH who don't have the resources to compete for these players have to look elsewhere. For many that means adapting your playing style so you don't need big bullocking ball carriers in the back row.

We like many teams now are looking to attack by using width and finding gaps from early phases and turnovers rather than more a more traditional style of earning the right to go wide and building an attack.

That said I'd still like the option of using a huge carrier to get behind the gain line particularly in the wet weather.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 1:52pm
The game is speeding up and one only has to look at the records of the NZ super teams this season to see the way the game is going. Kieron Reid may be 110kg but he plays like a 100kg player. Best not to base an argument around such a stand-out player. I'd happily have Ross but it seems  half of England is interested so if it's best of Boyde/McCloud/Condy in a year or two, then that will do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

The game is speeding up and one only has to look at the records of the NZ super teams this season to see the way the game is going. Kieron Reid may be 110kg but he plays like a 100kg player. Best not to base an argument around such a stand-out player. I'd happily have Ross but it seems  half of England is interested so if it's best of Boyde/McCloud/Condy in a year or two, then that will do.

If these three can perform consistently and achieve their potential, do we need to go for Ross ? He'll be away for large parts of the season as things stand.
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Tim Opolis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2017 at 2:26pm
What about Tadgh at 8? Is it a ridiculous idea? I might ask the coaches this question. If we know the weather's going to be bad and we're coming up against a big pack, we can add some kilo's to the back row, skills wise, no problem I'd suggest. If Tadgh is going to move on then he could fill a gap until hopefully Moriarty comes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dafen Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2017 at 2:39pm
Not sure he has the foot speed and game reading skills for a number 8?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2017 at 3:04pm
He would be a very tall 8! Hoping that Condy kicks on as looked good and powerful at RFC game v Pontypool in their Lions Den on Saturday! No bandaged knee/s 
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2017 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

He would be a very tall 8! Hoping that Condy kicks on as looked good and powerful at RFC game v Pontypool in their Lions Den on Saturday! No bandaged knee/s 

Thats very good news. He is my breakthrough player to watch this season along with Ryan Conbeer.
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