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On this day in 2007

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Rich (Bris) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2017 at 11:36pm
Hopefully we are seeing a change. New Zealand are certainly not gym monkeys and they play some of the best (the best?) Rugby I've ever seen in my 40 odd years of watching rugby. Scotland are going somewhere with smaller mute skillful players and the English backs are fairly small for sure. We will get there eventually as well! That said there still a lot of bosh being played but there always was by some teams
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 9:55am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Its the usual question - how much identity has a squad with the team/region they represent.


Ask the Toulon fans how much they still identify with their rugby team.

Quote It is totally wrong to describe Leinster as a chequebook team as they have a large majority of home grown talent, developed in their academy. The problem associated with the French teams is that they have moved away from relying on developing their own squads to funding galacticos squads. They have been allowed to do this as the ruling body have been slow to instill quotas & their huge TV deal gives them access to funding. 


They still have quotas. They're just clever with them. Like Delon Armitage counting as a non foreign player etc.

Quote Many Aviva teams are now following that model and teams like Leicester who used to be packed with homegrown talent find themselves having to throw money at expensive overseas signings to keep pace with Wasps & Saracens. Despite the TV deal I see it ending in tears. Saracens debts appear to be unsustainable topping £40+ million.


It's only unsutainable if the debt is called on them. People just seem to not understand the way professional sports club operate.

Manchester Utd are HALF A BILLION pounds in debt. Are they unsustainable too?

Quote The RFU are a little two faced as they, on the one hand, refuse to consider anyone playing outside England while on the other hand rush to cap South Sea Islanders who have no more affinity to the Red Rose than being happy to pick up the 22k per match fee. The attempt by World Rugby to make the South Sea Islands professional rugby more sustainable locally is a long overdue initiative.

If there was a dramatic reduction in the availability of South Sea Island talent combined with strict residency rules - 7-10 years & a club like Saracens going bust then we may see some sense returning to our beloved game. 


Saracens aren't going to go bust in the next few years. And wishing them to, is a little bad taste to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 10:03am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Its the usual question - how much identity has a squad with the team/region they represent.


Ask the Toulon fans how much they still identify with their rugby team.

Quote It is totally wrong to describe Leinster as a chequebook team as they have a large majority of home grown talent, developed in their academy. The problem associated with the French teams is that they have moved away from relying on developing their own squads to funding galacticos squads. They have been allowed to do this as the ruling body have been slow to instill quotas & their huge TV deal gives them access to funding. 


They still have quotas. They're just clever with them. Like Delon Armitage counting as a non foreign player etc.

Quote Many Aviva teams are now following that model and teams like Leicester who used to be packed with homegrown talent find themselves having to throw money at expensive overseas signings to keep pace with Wasps & Saracens. Despite the TV deal I see it ending in tears. Saracens debts appear to be unsustainable topping £40+ million.


It's only unsutainable if the debt is called on them. People just seem to not understand the way professional sports club operate.

Manchester Utd are HALF A BILLION pounds in debt. Are they unsustainable too?

Quote The RFU are a little two faced as they, on the one hand, refuse to consider anyone playing outside England while on the other hand rush to cap South Sea Islanders who have no more affinity to the Red Rose than being happy to pick up the 22k per match fee. The attempt by World Rugby to make the South Sea Islands professional rugby more sustainable locally is a long overdue initiative.

If there was a dramatic reduction in the availability of South Sea Island talent combined with strict residency rules - 7-10 years & a club like Saracens going bust then we may see some sense returning to our beloved game. 


Saracens aren't going to go bust in the next few years. And wishing them to, is a little bad taste to be honest.

Let me clarify. I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against. I should have selected Toulon or Montpelier.

You seem to suggest that you would be happy if the Scarlets could have followed the Toulon model. I certainly would not even if it had been allowed by the WRU. 

You also seem to suggest that sports franchises are somehow treated differently to other corporations by the Banks/lending institutions. I don't think so. Lines of credit will be given depending on the asset cover & cast iron personal guarantees. National governing bodies have a huge role to play in setting the rules. The WRU capping the quantity of non Welsh qualified players per squad against the French Federations stance is a perfect example. 
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Rich (Bris) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 11:22am
To be fair to Sarries as well, their days of being a South African​ off-shoot are gone. This is their starting team for today's quarter
Alex Goode; Chris Ashton, Marcelo Bosch, Brad Barritt, Sean Maitland; Owen Farrell, Richard Wigglesworth; Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Juan Figallo, Maro Itoje, Jim Hamilton, Michael Rhodes, Jackson Wray, Billy Vunipola

So very few imported stars

But c'mon Glasgow anyway!!!!

Edited by Rich (Bris) - 01 April 2017 at 11:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 11:40am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Let me clarify. I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against. I should have selected Toulon or Montpelier.

You seem to suggest that you would be happy if the Scarlets could have followed the Toulon model. I certainly would not even if it had been allowed by the WRU. 

You also seem to suggest that sports franchises are somehow treated differently to other corporations by the Banks/lending institutions. I don't think so. Lines of credit will be given depending on the asset cover & cast iron personal guarantees. National governing bodies have a huge role to play in setting the rules. The WRU capping the quantity of non Welsh qualified players per squad against the French Federations stance is a perfect example. 


The Scarlets do follow the Toulon model. It's exactly the same. We're just not as good at it and not in a sellable league.

French rugby has JIFF quotas. i.e. Minimum amount of (12 I think) French qualified players in any matchday squad. That's compared to 14 Welsh qualified players in Welsh regional squads (as set out by WRU). So your anger is all based on 2 more foreign players per squad? Seems rather petty to me.

In relation to this :

"I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against."

we would have had no Regan King, Easterby, Finau, Barclay, Parkes, Hodges, Lyons, Ben Morgan etc etc etc if we ere not allowed to "import foreigners". Or is there a magic limit that you want to impose ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 7:16pm
I saw stade Rochelais beat Edinburgh in the challenge cup and then noticed they are top of the Top 14! Forgive my ignorance but I've not heard of them before and didn't think they were one of the big French sides. Have they had a recent cash injection or something? They have a lot of kiwi and saffas in their squad as well I see.

Edited by dr_martinov - 01 April 2017 at 7:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I saw stade Rochelais beat Edinburgh in the challenge cup and then noticed they are top of the Top 14! Forgive my ignorance but I've not heard of them before and didn't think they were one of the big French sides. Have they had a recent cash injection or something? They have a lot of kiwi and saffas in their squad as well I see.

They are the real surprise of this year, I ve watched many games of them and play a really enjoyable rugby, a mix of power of their forward and skilled and pace backs, all linked by experience of Brock James as flyhalf...they have important names like Atonio,  Eaton, Vito, Paul Jordan, Botia and many youngs french in the backs...their phisical coach is italian...
Really good team and surely they are candidate to win Challenge cup and maybe do well in Top14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2017 at 7:48pm
Mart, they were tipped as strong relegation candidates preseason.

No strong cash boost, afaik. They were sparkling last night.

In the past they've been a bit forward oriented and dull. This season, they've had much more than that. Hope they make it to Edinburgh for the final.

If Ioan Cunningham was watching their maul, it'll have been time well spent.🚂🚂🚂

Edited by Eastern outpost - 01 April 2017 at 7:49pm
Any offence taken on board is only a literate/cy consequence. Every attempt at humour is just that. No personal insult intended. Standards lowered for trolls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2017 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Mart, they were tipped as strong relegation candidates preseason.

No strong cash boost, afaik. They were sparkling last night.

In the past they've been a bit forward oriented and dull. This season, they've had much more than that. Hope they make it to Edinburgh for the final.

If Ioan Cunningham was watching their maul, it'll have been time well spent.🚂🚂🚂

La Rochelle are the great surprise team in this years top 14. They have the audacity to win away from home!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2017 at 9:27am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Let me clarify. I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against. I should have selected Toulon or Montpelier.

You seem to suggest that you would be happy if the Scarlets could have followed the Toulon model. I certainly would not even if it had been allowed by the WRU. 

You also seem to suggest that sports franchises are somehow treated differently to other corporations by the Banks/lending institutions. I don't think so. Lines of credit will be given depending on the asset cover & cast iron personal guarantees. National governing bodies have a huge role to play in setting the rules. The WRU capping the quantity of non Welsh qualified players per squad against the French Federations stance is a perfect example. 


The Scarlets do follow the Toulon model. It's exactly the same. We're just not as good at it and not in a sellable league.

French rugby has JIFF quotas. i.e. Minimum amount of (12 I think) French qualified players in any matchday squad. That's compared to 14 Welsh qualified players in Welsh regional squads (as set out by WRU). So your anger is all based on 2 more foreign players per squad? Seems rather petty to me.

In relation to this :

"I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against."

we would have had no Regan King, Easterby, Finau, Barclay, Parkes, Hodges, Lyons, Ben Morgan etc etc etc if we ere not allowed to "import foreigners". Or is there a magic limit that you want to impose ?

You really should read other posters comments - but what the hell that may get in the way of your arguement. I have never said that all overseas players should be banned. The wonderful players you mention have graced the Scarlets sides over many years. Its the quantity that I am against. You really believe that our model is the same as Toulon. You also list quotas. Lets try the facts shall we - todays Toulon 23 contains 12 players not eligible for France. The last Scarlets team contained 6 not eligible for Wales. Broaden it out to the wider squad & the Scarlets have another two - Bernardo & Bulbring; Toulon have around 8. So we have 8 in our full squad with Toulon having around 20. So my anger, as you put it, is based on as little more than two!!!! As far as my magic limit I think the WRU have it about right as do the IRFU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2017 at 10:08am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Let me clarify. I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against. I should have selected Toulon or Montpelier.

You seem to suggest that you would be happy if the Scarlets could have followed the Toulon model. I certainly would not even if it had been allowed by the WRU. 

You also seem to suggest that sports franchises are somehow treated differently to other corporations by the Banks/lending institutions. I don't think so. Lines of credit will be given depending on the asset cover & cast iron personal guarantees. National governing bodies have a huge role to play in setting the rules. The WRU capping the quantity of non Welsh qualified players per squad against the French Federations stance is a perfect example. 


The Scarlets do follow the Toulon model. It's exactly the same. We're just not as good at it and not in a sellable league.

French rugby has JIFF quotas. i.e. Minimum amount of (12 I think) French qualified players in any matchday squad. That's compared to 14 Welsh qualified players in Welsh regional squads (as set out by WRU). So your anger is all based on 2 more foreign players per squad? Seems rather petty to me.

In relation to this :

"I have no particular bias against Saracens it is the principle of importing foreign starts ahead of home grown talent that I am against."

we would have had no Regan King, Easterby, Finau, Barclay, Parkes, Hodges, Lyons, Ben Morgan etc etc etc if we ere not allowed to "import foreigners". Or is there a magic limit that you want to impose ?


You really should read other posters comments - but what the hell that may get in the way of your arguement. I have never said that all overseas players should be banned. The wonderful players you mention have graced the Scarlets sides over many years. Its the quantity that I am against. You really believe that our model is the same as Toulon. You also list quotas. Lets try the facts shall we - todays Toulon 23 contains 12 players not eligible for France. The last Scarlets team contained 6 not eligible for Wales. Broaden it out to the wider squad & the Scarlets have another two - Bernardo & Bulbring; Toulon have around 8. So we have 8 in our full squad with Toulon having around 20. So my anger, as you put it, is based on as little more than two!!!! As far as my magic limit I think the WRU have it about right as do the IRFU.


Ok. Lets hope the nasty French listen to you and change their ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vulcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2017 at 10:36am
I used to watch La Rochelle in the ProD2. Big crowds and lots of social drinking, very similar to ASM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2017 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Vulcan Vulcan wrote:

I used to watch La Rochelle in the ProD2. Big crowds and lots of social drinking, very similar to ASM.
Any offence taken on board is only a literate/cy consequence. Every attempt at humour is just that. No personal insult intended. Standards lowered for trolls.
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