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Parkes' knock on...

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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Parkes' knock on...
    Posted: 10 September 2017 at 9:19am
I'd really be interested in the refereeing fraternities view on it...got me challenged...

Knocked it on yep, caught it or had it in control at any point before diverting the ball in a certain direction...nope....did he need to have it under total control to do that....no idea!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 9:47am
Apparently he knocked it on and never regained full control so the next Scarlets player who touched the ball made it an offence. If he had juggled with it then brought in under full control no problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 10:22am
Here's a thought ! Stick with it !

He did not have the ball under control in the classic sense of holding the ball in both hands. However, he did have it under control in the sense that he did exactly what he wanted to do with the ball, namely tap it on to a supporting player. It was clear to me that HP made a decision NOT to bring it under control in order to ship it on to a supporting player who had a run-in to the try line. 

You may have to think outside the box to understand what I'm trying to say here !!!!!

My point does fit in with what Wil has said !

It would be interesting to have Scarletman's take on it.


Edited by ap sior - 10 September 2017 at 10:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 10:34am
What it says in the laws...

"A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

To me, the bit in bold is the bit I've always defined a knock-on as. If a player regained the ball why would it be a knock-on? Wether Parkes tapped the ball back or caught it is immaterial in my eye, as he knocked the ball backwards.

Very dangerous ground if players are being pinged for knocking the ball backwards. Can of worms...


Edited by haydn_davies - 10 September 2017 at 10:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 10:40am
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

What it says in the laws...

"A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

To me, the bit in bold is the bit I've always defined a knock-on as. If a player regained the ball why would it be a knock-on? Wether Parkes tapped the ball back or caught it is immaterial in my eye, as he knocked the ball backwards.

Very dangerous ground if players are being pinged for knocking the ball backwards. Can of worms...

Last night's game has gone now as has the 5/7 pts we could/should have had.

If the ref believes that he made the correct decision then we live with it. However going forward I think that this needs clarification from higher authority. Without attaching blame, was the ref right or wrong in his interpretation ? Players, coaches referees and supporters deserve an answer. 

Personally I thought that it was a brilliant piece of quick thinking by Hadleigh to keep the move going.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

What it says in the laws...

"A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

To me, the bit in bold is the bit I've always defined a knock-on as. If a player regained the ball why would it be a knock-on? Wether Parkes tapped the ball back or caught it is immaterial in my eye, as he knocked the ball backwards.

Very dangerous ground if players are being pinged for knocking the ball backwards. Can of worms...

This is exactly the way I have always understood the law (since it was changed ages ago to allow 'juggling' - in the harsher times of my youth, such juggles were 'knock ons' under the law, regardless of whether the player went on to regain control).

Now, either the law has been changed since last season (entirely possible) or the ref introduced a completely new and personal interpretation of the old laws.

Scarletman/any qualified refs - please help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 3:16pm
Deserved a point for his juggling skills I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote multinational Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 3:18pm
I'm not neccesarily qualified to state the laws but I wouldn't have given a knock on and I doubt anyone would have complained
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 3:34pm
So If he juggles it forward but then re-catches it/gets it under control before he then passes it backwards I THINK thats ok 

BUT if he juggles it forward and doesnt quite catch it / control it before passing it on , then maybe thats not ok? Am I on the right track here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

So If he juggles it forward but then re-catches it/gets it under control before he then passes it backwards I THINK thats ok 

BUT if he juggles it forward and doesnt quite catch it / control it before passing it on , then maybe thats not ok? Am I on the right track here?

That was the ref's view yesterday.

We await a definitive answer on whether he was right/making it up as he went along from Scarletman or similar!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 4:04pm
I was more concerned about the referee's negligence towards player safety 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

What it says in the laws...

"A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

To me, the bit in bold is the bit I've always defined a knock-on as. If a player regained the ball why would it be a knock-on? Wether Parkes tapped the ball back or caught it is immaterial in my eye, as he knocked the ball backwards.

Very dangerous ground if players are being pinged for knocking the ball backwards. Can of worms...


Hadleigh never caught it. And he never possession.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

What it says in the laws...

"A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line."

To me, the bit in bold is the bit I've always defined a knock-on as. If a player regained the ball why would it be a knock-on? Wether Parkes tapped the ball back or caught it is immaterial in my eye, as he knocked the ball backwards.

Very dangerous ground if players are being pinged for knocking the ball backwards. Can of worms...


Hadleigh never caught it. And he never possession.

No, but we often see players flicking the ball on when under pressure, without being blown up. So 'catching' as such is not the issue here. The issue is whether you can juggle forwards, then flick backwards, without being pinged.

It does look as if either the laws have changed, or the interpretation has - from that ref anyway. No-one on SF has seen this sort of thing called a 'knock on' before, as far as I can see.

We still await a 'proper' ref to come on here and clarify!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 5:39pm
I just hope that this ruling will be consistent throughout. As one of the commentators said last night,if that was sonny bill playing for the AB's, that would have been an awesome piece of skill and an excellent try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

I just hope that this ruling will be consistent throughout. As one of the commentators said last night,if that was sonny bill playing for the AB's, that would have been an awesome piece of skill and an excellent try.

Last night's ref was consistent, as he gave two more knock-on decisions in similar circumstances. We still don't know if the rest of the 'refereeing community' Wink will interpret the law in the same way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2017 at 7:10pm
I agree. He was, but I was talking about ref's around the globe in general. Different refs interpret the law differently. Just hope that's not the case
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