Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Pivac on Steff, Adams and Cubby

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
Message
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Online
Points: 40760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2018 at 4:43pm
Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes it does both or neither.

If clubs can’t predict the future likely prospects of a player what the hell is the purpose of a development pathway and an academy...?

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
stradeyscarlet72 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 24 November 2018
Location: pembrokeshire
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stradeyscarlet72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2018 at 6:59pm
Two big bonuses for us , are that Pivac is going to Coach Wales and will want form players so will influence them and as he's clearly enjoyed his time here - he appears to be very loyal and wants the Scarlet brand of rugby to continue .

Back to Top
ScarletBear View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 May 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1813
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2018 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by diego6754 diego6754 wrote:

Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Liam wont be going to the world cup under current rules. Hes jyst signed a new contract, makingbhim unavsilable under the 60 cap rule. Same as webb.
Yes he will be because he hasn’t signed a new contract he’s just taken up the final year of his current deal

Exactly. You think Liam would be so dumb as to sign a contract knowing he misses the RWC?? Having said that Webb did, but he claims he was unaware. So ....
 

I think you'll see Webb back at a Welsh region either in the summer or before the end of the season and I think you'll see him as Wales' starting 9 at the World Cup.

I have that feeling too. He is our best #9 in Wales.
Scarlets before Wales
Back to Top
Huwbach View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2007
Location: underthebridge
Status: Offline
Points: 4252
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huwbach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2018 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by diego6754 diego6754 wrote:

Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Liam wont be going to the world cup under current rules. Hes jyst signed a new contract, makingbhim unavsilable under the 60 cap rule. Same as webb.
Yes he will be because he hasn’t signed a new contract he’s just taken up the final year of his current deal


Exactly. You think Liam would be so dumb as to sign a contract knowing he misses the RWC?? Having said that Webb did, but he claims he was unaware. So ....
 

I think you'll see Webb back at a Welsh region either in the summer or before the end of the season and I think you'll see him as Wales' starting 9 at the World Cup.


I have that feeling too. He is our best #9 in Wales.


IMO Cawdor is number 1 but a great problem to have.
Back to Top
Why View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 5925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2018 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes it does both or neither.

If clubs can’t predict the future likely prospects of a player what the hell is the purpose of a development pathway and an academy...?


Some players develop at different ages we didn’t think Josh was finished article. Worcester also didn’t think he was as they loaned him out. They possibly could afford to keep him at the time we didn’t have that much spare cash at the time.
Also some players will slip through the net Halfpenny and Sanjay being two in the Osprey region.
Our record of developing young local talent that has gone on to play for Wales is very good.
We have probably supplied more local players to play for the other three regions than anyone else.
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
Back to Top
Ainremixed View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29 November 2018
Location: Carmarthenshire
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ainremixed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 3:13am
FWIW - Interview with Josh Adams, BBC Rugby Unioin website 10th January 2018 -

"

It's Adams third season at Worcester after he left the Scarlets Academy in 2015 where he came through the ranks in Llanelli.

"With the competition in the Scarlets back three at the time, there was not an opportunity there," said Adams.

"I could not see myself progressing into the senior squad.

"The decision was made to explore new pastures, I came across to Worcester and have enjoyed my time here."

Adams did not make an instant impression with loan spells at Cinderford and Nottingham.

"It (the move) was a blessing in disguise," he added.

"The change in scenery freshened me up and I realised the hard work I had to put in.

"I was probably the last wing on the roster for selection. You have to earn that respect before you get out on the field in the Premiership."

Back to Top
Ainremixed View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29 November 2018
Location: Carmarthenshire
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ainremixed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 3:17am
Should also have said, he doesn't seem to be bare any grudges.
Back to Top
diego6754 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 June 2011
Location: Neyland
Status: Offline
Points: 929
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diego6754 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes it does both or neither.

If clubs can’t predict the future likely prospects of a player what the hell is the purpose of a development pathway and an academy...?


Some players develop at different ages we didn’t think Josh was finished article. Worcester also didn’t think he was as they loaned him out. They possibly could afford to keep him at the time we didn’t have that much spare cash at the time.
Also some players will slip through the net Halfpenny and Sanjay being two in the Osprey region.
Our record of developing young local talent that has gone on to play for Wales is very good.
We have probably supplied more local players to play for the other three regions than anyone else.
 

Exactly what I was going to say. People in all walks of life develop both mentally and physically at different points and ages. Some times it is a natural progression, some times it takes a kick up the back side! He was obviously not ready for first team rugby at the time as when he went to Worcester he was loaned out to Cinderford and Nottingham in the first season.

At the end of the day as I understand it he wasn't booted out of the development system he was told he had to spend another year with the RFC then things would be reassessed, he chose not to do that and move on. He has since blossomed. Everything I have read and listened to points to the fact he doesn't hold a grudge and probably realises that, actually he wasn't ready at the time.
Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Online
Points: 40760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 10:50am
So I'm struggling to get this point across.

At the time (and you can check back on my posts) it was a fact that we had no measure of his true ability to make it in the pro game in place, and what we did have was somehow ignored...he made 1 sub appearance for the Scarlets .. this after scoring 4 tries in 5 matches for Wales U20's at that Summer's World Cup ( a decent benchmark of ability).

I'm not sure you know how much a player gets for being in the Academy and playing for Llanelli at age 20 ( it's not much of a living by the way) versus how much he got on a pro deal for Worcester when playing for their 2nd team Nottingham etc?

We chose not to retain his services as a pro player, he tried his hand elsewhere, did well, we made an error.

From the Warriors website...

The paceman joined the Warriors Academy from Llanelli Scarlets in late 2015 after a fine showing at the World Rugby Under 20 Championship, where he scored four tries in five starts. During the tournament Adams scored a double in a 66-3 win over Japan, before crossing the whitewash against Ireland and Australia.

Adams impressed in his first senior outing for Warriors, scoring in a pre-season match against Saracens at Bramley Road in 2015 and continued his development with spells at Cinderford during the 2015/16 campaign and Nottingham at the start of the 2016/17 season.

He also impressed for Worcester Cavaliers before the first-team came calling.



Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Online
Points: 40760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 10:51am
Additional...I'm not sure where baring grudges comes in to it. History is history however.
Back to Top
diego6754 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 June 2011
Location: Neyland
Status: Offline
Points: 929
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diego6754 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

We released Adams and brought in Tom Williams. Not our finest decision and one I whined about at the time.

It must be a factor in Josh's decision making.
 

This is where bearing grudges came from. If you think it is a factor in his decision then you defacto think he is bearing a grudge. 

I don't think anyone is denying we made a mistake and you in your comments at the time were absolutely spot on but I don't think it will be a factor in his choice of region, in fact he said in his departing interview which is on the BBC website that he would never rule out coming back to the Scarlets and that over the two and a half years he was here we were good to him an he enjoyed his time. He's also a local boy.

In general I think our talent retention is pretty on point, we've released a lot of youngsters some of whom got the chance of first team experience others didn't. The majority, in hindsight it seems we made good decisions, every club is going to have one or two who slip through the net. Budget dictates you can't keep everyone to see if they make a leap.
Back to Top
NobbySosban View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 30 June 2010
Location: Sir Berk
Status: Offline
Points: 5036
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 11:28am
My reading of it...

Josh was told he'd need to bide his time to get into the 1st team - as an ambitious and confident teenager, he chose to take his chances elsewhere, thinking he'd get 1st team rugby with Worcester.

Once there, he effectively got a 'second opinion' from the Warriors which coincided with what he was told at the Scarlets - that he'd need to graft away in the lower levels and prove his worth to the top level squad. Having been told this a second time, he duly knuckled down and earned his place in the 1st team.

He's arguably reached the same level as he would have done if he'd stayed and grafted in Llanelli, indeed he may even have got a big chance sooner (or not - who knows?) - Worcester have reaped the benefit of his improvement (and fair play, they've invested & helped him develop), and Josh will have been paid quite a few more quids for the last couple of seasons than if he'd stayed, no doubt, but he now needs to return to Wales if he wants to continue his international career. It's his move.

Scarlets missed out on him, but it still doesn't seem an unreasonable decision to have 'let him go' when he was demanding 1st team rugby. And who's to say Steff Evs would've broken through if Josh had been the incumbent winger?

If 'if's and 'and's were pots and sospans... Ermm


Edited by NobbySosban - 29 November 2018 at 11:30am
Twitterer @ebenezer68
Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Online
Points: 40760
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 11:44am
I'll never really understand that kind of logic, at that point we had Steff just starting to make a noise, but other than that we hadn't produced a home grown winger since North ( had the unfortunate Harry Robinson and Taginakcibau on the books).

The point of nurturing talent up to the point of a development or pro deal, and then not offering them a pro deal is always going to be lost on me...at 16/17/18 I get it, but at 20, not so much.

In my view Worcester just did what we chose not to do.

In turn we brought in Tom Williams.

PS
A factor is not a grudge by the way...don't understand that at all.

Edited by Wil Chips - 29 November 2018 at 11:53am
Back to Top
Rich (Bris) View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 23 August 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 11:58am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by diego6754 diego6754 wrote:

Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Liam wont be going to the world cup under current rules. Hes jyst signed a new contract, makingbhim unavsilable under the 60 cap rule. Same as webb.
Yes he will be because he hasn’t signed a new contract he’s just taken up the final year of his current deal


Exactly. You think Liam would be so dumb as to sign a contract knowing he misses the RWC?? Having said that Webb did, but he claims he was unaware. So ....
 

I think you'll see Webb back at a Welsh region either in the summer or before the end of the season and I think you'll see him as Wales' starting 9 at the World Cup.


Now that is not out of the question. Toulon are not going very well this season and seem in a little disarray. 


Yes and Toulon have recent history of letting players leave contracts early if they want to - just one example is Chris Ashton, who was great for them and top try scorer in the league but they let him go early with little fuss after just one year so he could play in England and therefore hopefully get into the RWC squad. Can't see why they won't do this for Rhys. I'm pretty certain Rhys will be back if he wants to come back BUT if he thinks Gareth and Tomos Williams will be in front of him then he may decide to stay with the money. He may sign a one year deal with a region (and he won't play too much next season due to RWC and Six Nations) and then perhaps rejoin Toulon if they want him.
Back to Top
ap sior View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 7551
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by diego6754 diego6754 wrote:

Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Liam wont be going to the world cup under current rules. Hes jyst signed a new contract, makingbhim unavsilable under the 60 cap rule. Same as webb.
Yes he will be because he hasn’t signed a new contract he’s just taken up the final year of his current deal


Exactly. You think Liam would be so dumb as to sign a contract knowing he misses the RWC?? Having said that Webb did, but he claims he was unaware. So ....
 

I think you'll see Webb back at a Welsh region either in the summer or before the end of the season and I think you'll see him as Wales' starting 9 at the World Cup.


Now that is not out of the question. Toulon are not going very well this season and seem in a little disarray. 


Yes and Toulon have recent history of letting players leave contracts early if they want to - just one example is Chris Ashton, who was great for them and top try scorer in the league but they let him go early with little fuss after just one year so he could play in England and therefore hopefully get into the RWC squad. Can't see why they won't do this for Rhys. I'm pretty certain Rhys will be back if he wants to come back BUT if he thinks Gareth and Tomos Williams will be in front of him then he may decide to stay with the money. He may sign a one year deal with a region (and he won't play too much next season due to RWC and Six Nations) and then perhaps rejoin Toulon if they want him.

Can't see it happening, but I wonder what would happen if Toulon were to send him out on loan to a Welsh Region next season ?
Back to Top
Dai38 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 2103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 12:20pm
Welsh regions don't have the same money as Sales etc, Toulon did not want him to go, but with Ashton's wife/English prospects/Ashton wish, they left him go for a fee.


Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.047 seconds.