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Pivac on Steff, Adams and Cubby

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SA14 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes it does both or neither.

If clubs can’t predict the future likely prospects of a player what the hell is the purpose of a development pathway and an academy...?



It’s not just about a players’ ability. Some players settle in some team environments better than others. Some don’t. We’ve had loads of ‘whatever happened to’ players especially when they’ve joined Cardiff. Some clubs style of play suits players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 5:53pm
We had players that can’t to Gloucester with a good track record but just didn’t do it for Gloucester. They went somewhere else and were brilliant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes it does both or neither.

If clubs can’t predict the future likely prospects of a player what the hell is the purpose of a development pathway and an academy...?



It’s not just about a players’ ability. Some players settle in some team environments better than others. Some don’t. We’ve had loads of ‘whatever happened to’ players especially when they’ve joined Cardiff. Some clubs style of play suits players.


I suppose you might be slightly more or less comfortable/productive in a certain environment, but that doesn’t trump or substitute ability, it’s the cornerstone of any players career trajectory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Winston Winston wrote:

We had players that can’t to Gloucester with a good track record but just didn’t do it for Gloucester. They went somewhere else and were brilliant.


And vice versa I’d imagine, but ultimately they can only play to their ability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

I am getting a little fed up with the Adams stream, sorry.

Hindsight is a great thing to have.......isn't it.

He went when he had a chance, either our fault or his choice we can not change it now.




No need to apologise, you can give the thread a miss too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

We didn’t let Adams go he chose to leave as he didn’t want a year in the rfc. Let’s get over it now lol


That’s right. Couple of grand a year as a 20 year old, or a pro deal.

He must have westled with that one for weeks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

We didn’t let Adams go he chose to leave as he didn’t want a year in the rfc. Let’s get over it now lol


That’s right. Couple of grand a year as a 20 year old, or a pro deal.

He must have westled with that one for weeks.

The pro deal v academy (fraction of a pro) deal is a reflection on the respective financial capabilities of the two employers at the time.

Thankfully, those days are behind us and the gap is much closer now.
Any offence taken on board is only a literate/cy consequence. Every attempt at humour is just that. No personal insult intended. Standards lowered for trolls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 8:24pm
As I see it - mainly from reading this thread, our mistake was to try to keep Josh Adams for a little longer on rfc wages, while Worcester were willing to pay him quite a bit more, but only to loan him, to clubs of the same sort of standard or less, (and without the history - beating the All Blacks etc)
 Now that he has proven himself at International level and appears to want to return to Wales in order to pursue his international career then we just might want to re-sign him. This would be particularly beneficial if we knew more about the intentions of Steff, McNicholl, Prydie, Asquith etc. Certainly if one or more of these goes we will need top quality reinforcements like Adams.
Clearly at the moment there is a lot up in the air, even if the players themselves know their intentions. 
Meanwhile we do know that our top priority should be a couple of quality ball carriers in the back 5 of the scrum and a good reserve fly-half.
I'd certainly like to see Steff and McNicholl remain but would also welcome Josh into the squad if we've got the dosh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 8:38pm
The human message here of course, (and I am not saying this relates to Josh at all) is that when a decision is taken that a young player has to be released that they are treated with the utmost care,civility and respect so that hopefully, when they leave, they are disappointed but don't bear any real resentment towards the club as they go about their careers and keep in touch with them as well when possible. Sometimes a bit of careful people management will go down a long way and for leading ones life in general!
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huwbach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2018 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

My reading of it...

Josh was told he'd need to bide his time to get into the 1st team - as an ambitious and confident teenager, he chose to take his chances elsewhere, thinking he'd get 1st team rugby with Worcester.

Once there, he effectively got a 'second opinion' from the Warriors which coincided with what he was told at the Scarlets - that he'd need to graft away in the lower levels and prove his worth to the top level squad. Having been told this a second time, he duly knuckled down and earned his place in the 1st team.

He's arguably reached the same level as he would have done if he'd stayed and grafted in Llanelli, indeed he may even have got a big chance sooner (or not - who knows?) - Worcester have reaped the benefit of his improvement (and fair play, they've invested & helped him develop), and Josh will have been paid quite a few more quids for the last couple of seasons than if he'd stayed, no doubt, but he now needs to return to Wales if he wants to continue his international career. It's his move.

Scarlets missed out on him, but it still doesn't seem an unreasonable decision to have 'let him go' when he was demanding 1st team rugby. And who's to say Steff Evs would've broken through if Josh had been the incumbent winger?

If 'if's and 'and's were pots and sospans... Ermm



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 1:16am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

We didn’t let Adams go he chose to leave as he didn’t want a year in the rfc. Let’s get over it now lol


That’s right. Couple of grand a year as a 20 year old, or a pro deal.

He must have westled with that one for weeks.

The pro deal v academy (fraction of a pro) deal is a reflection on the respective financial capabilities of the two employers at the time.

Thankfully, those days are behind us and the gap is much closer now.

He's not on much at Worcester. He would have earned more on the Wales 3 test summer tour practically. This contract will be his first big pay day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

We didn’t let Adams go he chose to leave as he didn’t want a year in the rfc. Let’s get over it now lol


That’s right. Couple of grand a year as a 20 year old, or a pro deal.

He must have westled with that one for weeks.

The pro deal v academy (fraction of a pro) deal is a reflection on the respective financial capabilities of the two employers at the time.

Thankfully, those days are behind us and the gap is much closer now.


He's not on much at Worcester. He would have earned more on the Wales 3 test summer tour practically. This contract will be his first big pay day.

Well if Worcester want to waste money on a player that they won’t see for a year as they loaned him out then more fool them. We don’t have the luxury with money to do that. Can’t blame him but can’t blame us either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 12:35pm
Worcester wasted their money?
Right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 12:46pm
Like paying for a car and lending it to your mate for a year
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

We didn’t let Adams go he chose to leave as he didn’t want a year in the rfc. Let’s get over it now lol


That’s right. Couple of grand a year as a 20 year old, or a pro deal.

He must have westled with that one for weeks.

The pro deal v academy (fraction of a pro) deal is a reflection on the respective financial capabilities of the two employers at the time.

Thankfully, those days are behind us and the gap is much closer now.


He's not on much at Worcester. He would have earned more on the Wales 3 test summer tour practically. This contract will be his first big pay day.

Well if Worcester want to waste money on a player that they won’t see for a year as they loaned him out then more fool them. We don’t have the luxury with money to do that. Can’t blame him but can’t blame us either.


Forgive me if I am wrong but I would think that the club they loaned him out to paid a certain % of his salary, so it's hardly a waste of money....more an investment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2018 at 12:52pm
I'm not sure you understand how this works.

Worcester got an absolute bargain.

32 tries in 55 games and the Aviva's top try scorer last season with 17...all for the price of a development contract 3 years ago.

If I was the Worcester Board I'd be commending myself on a job well done...very similar to the 2 years we got out of Tadgh for next to nothing.
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