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Outclassed by Argentina

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Category: RUGBY
Forum Name: GENERAL RUGBY
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Topic: Outclassed by Argentina
Posted By: Jonesyboy1000
Subject: Outclassed by Argentina
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 4:32pm
I am so disappointed by that welsh performance.  We were totally outclassed in almost every department of  the game - Faletau was the stand out performer for me and Jarvis did well, but every other aspect was dreadful.  We kick away so much possession. And that missed try opportunity by Rob in the last couple of minutes with an overlap of three indicates a total lack of rugby intelligence.

Guscott has questioned the leadership and he's clearly right to do so. 

Sadly, I cannot see a victory this autumn to be honest.


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Two sides referee!



Replies:
Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 4:36pm
They will win next weekend at least.

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: kcreg
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

They will win next weekend at least.
i wouldn't be to sure ,after that display today.

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I WAS THERE-LIBERTY STADIUM 11/9/07 & 26/3/16

OSPREYS 9-SCARLETS 14!
OSPEYS 16-SCARLETS 25!


Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 4:45pm
Hate to see Wales loose at the best if times, but they didn't really create anything of note today.

Argies looked like they wanted it far more.

Maybe this will make the press question the WRU and their stance with the Regions??

When things go wrong people always look to blame others...

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Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by kcreg kcreg wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

They will win next weekend at least.
i wouldn't be to sure ,after that display today.
Maybe not.......

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: Turkish Fez
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 4:59pm
Wales' Achilles heel. Take out the top 4/5 2nd rows in Welsh rugby and the rest are so pants they don't even have a replacement 2nd row on the bench. Scarlets tried to use Turnbull as emergency cover for 2nd row and that has never worked so why the wise and good in the coaching department will think it will work at test level against ARG is beyond me.
Shows the depth of difference between SH and NH even more.


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We all had Doctor's papers!


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Hate to see Wales loose at the best if times, but they didn't really create anything of note today.

Argies looked like they wanted it far more.

Maybe this will make the press question the WRU and their stance with the Regions??

When things go wrong people always look to blame others...


Too right.

Very disappointed - but how often have Wales played well in the Autumn? To me, it looks as if the players know the games are just a money-making stunt for the WRU - they don't seem to play for the shirt.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 5:27pm
Looking at the argies ...the biggest plus with them  is that they dont miss a tackle...and that was the difference today

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I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Looking at the argies ...the biggest plus with them  is that they dont miss a tackle...and that was the difference today
I'd add offloading to that as well.
 
Just look at their first try - 3 offloads in the tackle leading up to it.


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Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 5:40pm
MMM oFF LOADING HAVE I MENTIONED THAT BEFORE

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I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: minded
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 5:50pm
Only one to predict an Argie win on Superbru, everyone else thinking with their hearts not heads.

Ironically today has proven if anything to the WRU that you dont need your internationals to be playing in their home country to be a successful team. 


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 5:57pm
aFTER WHAT YOU POSTED ON TWITTER ACOUT THE WRU (INFO FROM YOUR DAD)YOUR OBJECTIVETY MUST BE CALLED INTO QUESTION

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I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: Ow!
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 6:11pm

Why is this on the chat board? The only Welsh players who turned up this afternoon were Halfpenny and Faletau. Most of the others had a very bad day at the office. Oh and Jarvis did fine too, an admirable debut.



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Gentlemen, gentlemen, I'll never understand. A world of knowledge at your fingertips, and you play poker all night.












Posted By: Turkish Fez
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 6:14pm
One thing about Argentiana which is so evident as a band of wondering travellers they are such a tight knit bunch come win or lose. It is a mark IMO the quality of the player we will have with Tomas in our squad as long as he used in the correct way. An athletic 2nd row can cover the backrow on the bench not start.
A backrow player that starts 7 for us should never start for Wales at 6 and  have to cover 2nd row at test level. That is bordering on amateur managment. Felt sorry for Josh.
I do appreciate that Shingler may be able to do it but then again he has played alot of rugby at 2nd row.


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We all had Doctor's papers!


Posted By: minded
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 6:14pm
Moved to General Rugby


Posted By: BlackwoodScarlet
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 6:32pm
[QUOTE=Ow!]

Why is this on the chat board? The only Welsh players who turned up this afternoon were Halfpenny and Faletau. Most of the others had a very bad day at the office. Oh and Jarvis did fine too, an admirable
sorry apart from the kicks halfpenny wasnt at the races, jarvis done well our locks didnt show up, warburton shouldnt be near the starting 15 that should be tupuric. hook showed he cant tackle instead he goes for the rip instead of tackling the man s williams had a good game

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If it bleeds we can can kill it



Posted By: Mike
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 7:13pm
More performances like this in the shop window of test rugby and we'll solve the problem of French raids.
 
Every cloud and all that.


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 7:17pm
I would love for this anti wales attitude to spread to the lions as we need all of our players to have a proper pre season and a rest for us next year

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I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 7:36pm
Argentina were the far better team.


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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: cauliflowerear11
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 7:58pm
I have seen some dismal displays over the years by Wales but todaY'S RANKS AMOUNG ONE OF THE WORST. Our pack had no grunt, our back row was non existant. What can I say about our backs. Once again they were one dimensional.  They ran sideways rather than forward.  Nobody tried to create anything. Im sorry but Howley is nowhere good enough to coach an international team. He brings nothing to our way of playing. I would go so far as saying he isn't good enough to train a club side.


Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:05pm
One thing that struck me when we had possession of the ball was that we constantly seemed to use the wrong option. When we should run straight we crab across, when we should ship the ball wide we run straight and get turned over, when we should run with the ball in hand we kick and concede possession,etc.

I was so fed up of this in the end that I was actually thinking have these players trained with each other during the past two weeks or not??

Also, how infuriating is it when the backs take the ball standing still?? Common sense says that you sould run onto the ball mun!!

Simple things. But why aren't they doing them??

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Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:31pm
Argentina were far more intelliegent with their back play, in fact i didnt see the game live and watched it this evening without knowing the score and enjoyed watching them play. Their Captain was a pillar and a leader. Warby is not the player he was, ive said it so many times and im always shouted down, but he aint anymore and tippy deserves the no 7 jersey.



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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: kcreg
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Argentina were far more intelliegent with their back play, in fact i didnt see the game live and watched it this evening without knowing the score and enjoyed watching them play. Their Captain was a pillar and a leader. Warby is not the player he was, ive said it so many times and im always shouted down, but he aint anymore and tippy deserves the no 7 jersey.

that says it all really though,doesn't it.when would you ever say that argentina would be more intelligent in their back play than wales!!

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I WAS THERE-LIBERTY STADIUM 11/9/07 & 26/3/16

OSPREYS 9-SCARLETS 14!
OSPEYS 16-SCARLETS 25!


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by kcreg kcreg wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Argentina were far more intelliegent with their back play, in fact i didnt see the game live and watched it this evening without knowing the score and enjoyed watching them play. Their Captain was a pillar and a leader. Warby is not the player he was, ive said it so many times and im always shouted down, but he aint anymore and tippy deserves the no 7 jersey.

that says it all really though,doesn't it.when would you ever say that argentina would be more intelligent in their back play than wales!!



Agree i said earlier in the week our backs should just have enough edge to pull the win, Argentina were far better and their no 9 a sniping snake and they were running off the ball, decoy runners and tbh they were not intimidated by us at all. They deserved that win and i did mention their display against the All Blacks in NZ was truly inspiring and they had them for 60 odd mins. We were awful and Howley is a crap coach, but the WRU loves him, so it doesnt matter anyway.





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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: scarletabroad
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:44pm
Well who ever is responsible for the backs coaching needs to go looking for a new job IMO.
I don't recall an insatnce where we had dummy/decoy runners, players hitting the line at pace from deep, it's as if we have gone back a few years and started to play that wonderefuly predictable side to side gameplan which if then as usual doesn't work lets kick it away.
 
Argentina withing 30 secs sorted our gameplan out which uuummmmm everyone new "Roberts smash it up the middle" from them on it was side to side stuff.
 
There was absolutely no invention in the back line we were aweful
 
Big well done to Argentina thoroughly deserved and one silver lining I thought Thomas V did well in his little stint.
Finally something that doesn't happen on here (not much anyway) well done Roman Poitre reffed it well today


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:46pm
The team were poor today but they've shown before that they can gel and win games.
The pitch on the other hand, has been an utter disgrace since the stadium was built.  It is not fit to play rugby on and made it really difficult for both sides..
 
On another note did anyone else think that the comentator, for whatever reason, had an anti-Priestland attitude and was critical of every option he took.  Jiffy as usual was a complete loudmouthed ignoramus.
Stevo was a gent as usual and was much more balanced than Guscott.


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Keep the faith


Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

Well who ever is responsible for the backs coaching needs to go looking for a new job IMO.
I don't recall an insatnce where we had dummy/decoy runners, players hitting the line at pace from deep, it's as if we have gone back a few years and started to play that wonderefuly predictable side to side gameplan which if then as usual doesn't work lets kick it away.

 

Argentina withing 30 secs sorted our gameplan out which uuummmmm everyone new "Roberts smash it up the middle" from them on it was side to side stuff.

 

There was absolutely no invention in the back line we were aweful

 

Big well done to Argentina thoroughly deserved and one silver lining I thought Thomas V did well in his little stint.

Finally something that doesn't happen on here (not much anyway) well done Roman Poitre reffed it well today

Correct!!

Nowhere have I seen anyone blaming the ref for the loss today.

Wales lost that themselves - end of.

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Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 10 November 2012 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:



The team were poor today but they've shown before that they can gel and win games.
The pitch on the other hand, has been an utter disgrace since the stadium was built.  It is not fit to play rugby on and made it really difficult for both sides..
 
On another note did anyone else think that the comentator, for whatever reason, had an anti-Priestland attitude and was critical of every option he took.  Jiffy as usual was a complete loudmouthed ignoramus.
Stevo was a gent as usual and was much more balanced than Guscott.


If the pitch was half decent Argentina would have been knocking 40 points on us.




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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Jonesyboy1000
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 1:03am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:



The team were poor today but they've shown before that they can gel and win games.
The pitch on the other hand, has been an utter disgrace since the stadium was built.  It is not fit to play rugby on and made it really difficult for both sides..
 
On another note did anyone else think that the comentator, for whatever reason, had an anti-Priestland attitude and was critical of every option he took.  Jiffy as usual was a complete loudmouthed ignoramus.
Stevo was a gent as usual and was much more balanced than Guscott.


If the pitch was half decent Argentina would have been knocking 40 points on us.


Frankly, much as I rate Stephen Jones as a person ('a gent') and a player who gave his all for Wales, he's still too close to the players to give an objective assessment of Wales' performance.  I always find Guscott very honest and also positive about Wales' performances - of course, Jiffy always makes him look good!  I tend to listen to non-welsh people for a robust, intelligent assessment of any welsh performance because we (including myself!) are too emotional and passionate about it.


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Two sides referee!


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 1:13am
Originally posted by Ow! Ow! wrote:

Why is this on the chat board? The only Welsh players who turned up this afternoon were Halfpenny and Faletau. Most of the others had a very bad day at the office. Oh and Jarvis did fine too, an admirable debut.



It was probably Leigh's worsr perfromance for Wales..very suspect under the high ball, offered little support to the line, got stood up for their first try, ran around for their second. Kicked well.

Toby had the ball a lot but can't recall him making any line breaks, the forwards were so flat footed and lazy by and large, and a few seemed dis-interested.

No one came out of that game with much credit. I don't agree with Jarvis much either, he held his own, but the scrum, when it really mattered, was easily split.

That was the worst Welsh performance for a couple of years.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 6:49am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Ow! Ow! wrote:

Why is this on the chat board? The only Welsh players who turned up this afternoon were Halfpenny and Faletau. Most of the others had a very bad day at the office. Oh and Jarvis did fine too, an admirable debut.



It was probably Leigh's worsr perfromance for Wales..very suspect under the high ball, offered little support to the line, got stood up for their first try, ran around for their second. Kicked well.

Toby had the ball a lot but can't recall him making any line breaks, the forwards were so flat footed and lazy by and large, and a few seemed dis-interested.

No one came out of that game with much credit. I don't agree with Jarvis much either, he held his own, but the scrum, when it really mattered, was easily split.

That was the worst Welsh performance for a couple of years.



Being dis-interested is an interesting thought tbh, for me these Autumn Internationals are a bit duff. The only game that matters is beating the All Blacks and that's every year now and the importance and excitement for these games must be on the wane i would suggest.

Whenever the camera panned around it was like a crowd from a carnival and the booing at the end was a bit disgraceful tbh, do they expect the team to win the game or do they realise they have to earn the right to win the game. The atmosphere at the ground is not what i remember a Welsh International to be.
I blame the WRU for destroying looked forward to Welsh games into a Sunday mini league.



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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 7:47am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Ow! Ow! wrote:

Why is this on the chat board? The only Welsh players who turned up this afternoon were Halfpenny and Faletau. Most of the others had a very bad day at the office. Oh and Jarvis did fine too, an admirable debut.



It was probably Leigh's worsr perfromance for Wales..very suspect under the high ball, offered little support to the line, got stood up for their first try, ran around for their second. Kicked well.

Toby had the ball a lot but can't recall him making any line breaks, the forwards were so flat footed and lazy by and large, and a few seemed dis-interested.

No one came out of that game with much credit. I don't agree with Jarvis much either, he held his own, but the scrum, when it really mattered, was easily split.

That was the worst Welsh performance for a couple of years
.



Being dis-interested is an interesting thought tbh, for me these Autumn Internationals are a bit duff.
The only game that matters is beating the All Blacks and that's every year now and the importance and excitement for these games must be on the wane i would suggest.

Whenever the camera panned around it was like a crowd from a carnival and the booing at the end was a bit disgraceful tbh, do they expect the team to win the game or do they realise they have to earn the right to win the game. The atmosphere at the ground is not what i remember a Welsh International to be.
I blame the WRU for destroying looked forward to Welsh games into a Sunday mini league.




Strongly agree with the points in bold. As I wrote earlier, the AIs are just a cash cow for the WRU - for some time, many supporters (myself included) have lost interest in these games (I'll continue going to see NZ, just in case - though I'm not expecting that long awaited win this year!).

I would never boo a side I support, even if they play badly - but I can understand the crowd's frustration, as the Argies seemed to want the win so much more than our boys.

In passing, I'll just say that I thought Tavis did OK - nothing special, but tidy and no mistakes - though of course the Argie 9 had a blinder, so he suffered in comparison. Was unlucky to be the first substituted, IMO.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Matty
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 8:21am
Can't say I'm surprised at all. Just before kickoff I turned to my wife and said "I've got a bad feeling about this, they'll overpower us in every aspect of the game". The warning signs have been there for a while but these have been brushed oever because of the 'success' of the team.

In last year's World Cup Wales were hailed as one of the best teams in the tournament. Yet what did they achieve? A win against Ireland basically. They narrowly lost to SA, AUS and France - in each game they had plenty of chances to win but didn't take them. Had a real scare against Samoa and only just came through unconvincingly. Then thumped Namibia (expected) and Fiji's second team (to all extents and purposes).

In the six nations we got a Grand Slam but there were major weaknesses in the performances. It took late scores to beat England and Ireland and the performance against France to win the title wasn't all that convincing either. The Grand Slam win meant that people could choose to ignore these weaknesses and they have not been addressed. The 4 losses against Australia (November and 3 in June) also saw us being the gallant losers but no-one picks up on the fact that those games should have put to bed when chances were thrown away.

Next week is now a must win game. Lose and Wales are in trouble of slipping out of the top 8 in the rankings, meaning we would play 2 of the top teams in the World in the RWC pool stages. I would not fancy a group of All Blacks, England and us!


Posted By: SAV
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 9:53am
Holley said he wanted to win 3 out of 4 , I don't think he intended to win them from this position

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as all the coaches left stradey , bound for nottingham , a sign on the m4 at hendy said , please can the last person close the door behind them , memories


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 12:48pm
I think people forget how high Argentina are in the world rankings. 


Posted By: AstroScarlet
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by SAV SAV wrote:

Holley said he wanted to win 3 out of 4 , I don't think he intended to win them from this position

Be lucky to win one at the moment.

Was almost like we expected to win yesterday, but this was a very well prepared Argentinian side, you don't play the 3 best sides in the world back to back and not improve your game. 

They were more patient, more street wise, showed more desire and heart. We just looked lost and rusty.

I hope we up our game next week, because if we lose that, god help us when NZ come to town...


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'Stand up at home if you're watching, that was one of the Heineken Cup great tries'


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 1:27pm
I hope the Welsh press are tearing in to Howley and Gatland for the decision not to put a lock on the bench.?


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 4:47pm
Yes, but who did they have available and in form? Bradley not,  Reed ? Siddoli  No 2nd rows coming through.

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Keep the faith


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 4:48pm
They capped Reed last season in the 6N. So why not now?

Dom Day appears to be playing well at Bath.


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

I hope the Welsh press are tearing in to Howley and Gatland for the decision not to put a lock on the bench.?
Nothing to do with Gatland mate.

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Matty Matty wrote:

Can't say I'm surprised at all. Just before kickoff I turned to my wife and said "I've got a bad feeling about this, they'll overpower us in every aspect of the game". The warning signs have been there for a while but these have been brushed oever because of the 'success' of the team.

In last year's World Cup Wales were hailed as one of the best teams in the tournament. Yet what did they achieve? A win against Ireland basically. They narrowly lost to SA, AUS and France - in each game they had plenty of chances to win but didn't take them. Had a real scare against Samoa and only just came through unconvincingly. Then thumped Namibia (expected) and Fiji's second team (to all extents and purposes).

In the six nations we got a Grand Slam but there were major weaknesses in the performances. It took late scores to beat England and Ireland and the performance against France to win the title wasn't all that convincing either. The Grand Slam win meant that people could choose to ignore these weaknesses and they have not been addressed. The 4 losses against Australia (November and 3 in June) also saw us being the gallant losers but no-one picks up on the fact that those games should have put to bed when chances were thrown away.

Next week is now a must win game. Lose and Wales are in trouble of slipping out of the top 8 in the rankings, meaning we would play 2 of the top teams in the World in the RWC pool stages. I would not fancy a group of All Blacks, England and us!
Bit harsh I can't agree with some of that. You make some valid points though!

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: MikeM
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 5:05pm
I guess the Scarlet bashes will be out in force in work tomorrow.



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Through Thick And Thin!


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by MikeM MikeM wrote:

I guess the Scarlet bashes will be out in force in work tomorrow.



No-one really shone - but one player who let himself and Wales down big time was (surprisingly) AW Jones - giving away two stupid penalties when we had a chance to attack was unforgivable.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Yes, but who did they have available and in form? Bradley not,  Reed ? Siddoli  No 2nd rows coming through.
 
Surely they needed bradley on the bench?
They ended up with rob and tipuric on the bench? very odd selection,surely it needed to be one or the other and a proven lock forward. was howley succumbing to the welsh medias desire for tipuric to be involved?
 
Howley has been involved in a few roParc y Scarletselections for ropey reasons. the non phillips selection seemed absurd, especially as we lacked ball carriers and our best tight head, we had to expect wed get a lot of back foot ball, hence the greater need for phillips at 9. Hibbards non selection also made little sense. hes been on fire this season in a highly impressive ospreys front 5. Paul James too was unlucky to miss out.
 
Ian evans didnt get on the field in australia after missing the first test for his wedding. Howley seemed to keep him at the bottom on ths locks list, regardless of the fact hed been superb all season and the best lock in the 6 nations >? barring injuries and fitness concerns, when youre playing the best sides, isnt it best policy to pick your best team? who is picking howleys teams? him or rog the dog and chums?
 
 


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Crug Mawr
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

They capped Reed last season in the 6N. So why not now?

Dom Day appears to be playing well at Bath.
 
I have heard this said a few times.
 
All I can say is that the Dom Day I have seen in two games this season is putting in performances indistinguishable from those he put in with us over the past few seasons.


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'Some players act hard. Delme just was. His presence could lift any side.'





Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by Crug Mawr Crug Mawr wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

They capped Reed last season in the 6N. So why not now?

Dom Day appears to be playing well at Bath.
 
I have heard this said a few times.
 
All I can say is that the Dom Day I have seen in two games this season is putting in performances indistinguishable from those he put in with us over the past few seasons.
 
Mmmmmmmmm ! Perhaps we should ask ourselves the question why he can perform so well for Bath and not for us ?


Posted By: Crug Mawr
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Crug Mawr Crug Mawr wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

They capped Reed last season in the 6N. So why not now?

Dom Day appears to be playing well at Bath.
 
I have heard this said a few times.
 
All I can say is that the Dom Day I have seen in two games this season is putting in performances indistinguishable from those he put in with us over the past few seasons.
 
Mmmmmmmmm ! Perhaps we should ask ourselves the question why he can perform so well for Bath and not for us ?
 
I don't think he isSmile
 
He still comes across as very placid. Think as a club we made the right calls with our second row.


-------------
'Some players act hard. Delme just was. His presence could lift any side.'





Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 11 November 2012 at 11:10pm
Will be an interesting week talking to the guys in work who went to the game.



-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 3:13am
KID A---do you think Lou would have offered more than Rob, Shings or Josh as a second row?
(I don't in case you are wondering..).

The elephant in the room is how the blantant abuse of the AI window by the WRU has now directly affected the match day 23 (for a game that is actually in the approved AI window).

Trading Charteris' availability for the Aus game by not making him availsable for this one, followed by Bradley getting injured, meant we had 2 fit bona fide locks.


Can't imagone any other top international team in such a muddle.




Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 9:46am
Shingler was the sensible option on the bench. Has played lock, 6 and even 7. I would have included a lock on the bench. Lou, Dom, Shingler - anybody.

Perhaps they wouldn't have played better than Mcusker, who knows. I'd tell Priestland to kick to touch more anyway instead of infield, which would mean we need more lineout options needed.


Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

More performances like this in the shop window of test rugby and we'll solve the problem of French raids.
 

Every cloud and all that.


Quite the contrary if you read some of this morning's quality press.

They are blaming the standard of the Rabo as a league and claim that as 14 out of the starting 15 play there, they would be better off in a tougher league.

This is a catch-22 situation as we've initially pooled all our talent in four teams so the big names have little chance to play many games in the league which dilutes the standard. If we were to expand our numbers back to 8 teams, there wouldn't be enough money to fund the game. So the only place the "stars" are challenged is in the HEC and local derbies (and very early or late season league games). Yet we aren't strong enough to compete in the HEC as our quality players play outside the regions so those left are subject to hammerings.

Add to that the fact that the Blues could have offered Roberts a king's ransom to stay and he wouldn't as he is no doubt sick of being beaten week-in week-out.

This is a downward spiral and either the Rabo becomes more competitive through HEC qualification or the regions give up and become development teams for France.



Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 11:46am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

KID A---do you think Lou would have offered more than Rob, Shings or Josh as a second row?
(I don't in case you are wondering..).

The elephant in the room is how the blantant abuse of the AI window by the WRU has now directly affected the match day 23 (for a game that is actually in the approved AI window).

Trading Charteris' availability for the Aus game by not making him availsable for this one, followed by Bradley getting injured, meant we had 2 fit bona fide locks.


Can't imagone any other top international team in such a muddle.


We shouldn't have played this game. It achieved nothing. And I'm not just saying that because we lost and played poorly.

I have hopefully shot the elephant and now can sell the ivory for my tower. Smile


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:37pm
How much input did Gatland have into this game?

As for Argentina, they weren't shown the respect they deserved. They've played some great rugby this year. 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

How much input did Gatland have into this game?

As for Argentina, they weren't shown the respect they deserved. They've played some great rugby this year. 


I'm going to guess that not much, if anything gets called without Gatland vetoing it in some way.

I don't think it would have made a bit of difference if Gatland was in and around the squad either.


Posted By: LLANDRE
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:48pm
Ive never seen a Welsh crowd so quiet and this was from the word go.  The Argentina game reminded me of our game against Zebra with the same problems. Both teams played in a slow ponderous way with little imagination. There didnt seem a game plan at all

-------------
West is Best (Fin gwybod)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by LLANDRE LLANDRE wrote:

Ive never seen a Welsh crowd so quiet and this was from the word go.  The Argentina game reminded me of our game against Zebra with the same problems. Both teams played in a slow ponderous way with little imagination. There didnt seem a game plan at all

Argentina had a perfect game plan and it worked.


Posted By: PearlJam
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by LLANDRE LLANDRE wrote:

Ive never seen a Welsh crowd so quiet and this was from the word go.  The Argentina game reminded me of our game against Zebra with the same problems. Both teams played in a slow ponderous way with little imagination. There didnt seem a game plan at all

Argentina had a perfect game plan and it worked.

Probably because 90% of the tickets were corporate handouts to people who have the tiniest amount of rugby knowledge.

Plus (come on) "Shane", nor (our) "Gav" played so the crowd don't know the names of anyone else to cheer on.



-------------
If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.


Posted By: LLANDRE
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 1:23pm
I suspect you are correct P.J. My cousin who is older than me went to the game with hio wife and his two young children and his wife had to wake him up during the second half as he had fallen asleep.
 
These games have lost there appeal. The WRU were totally wrong to have banned the Ospreys v Tonga game.
 
The WRU were selling tickets in there new ticket outlet in the St Davids shopping centre, ticketmaster  and the ticket office in Cardiff Arms Park pre match


-------------
West is Best (Fin gwybod)


Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 1:25pm
And don't forget Tesco Llandre!!

-------------
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.


Posted By: LLANDRE
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 1:34pm
Oh yes and them . I try notb to go there unless i have to !!!

-------------
West is Best (Fin gwybod)


Posted By: gofer88
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by LLANDRE LLANDRE wrote:

I suspect you are correct P.J. My cousin who is older than me went to the game with hio wife and his two young children and his wife had to wake him up during the second half as he had fallen asleep.
 
These games have lost there appeal. The WRU were totally wrong to have banned the Ospreys v Tonga game.
 
The WRU were selling tickets in there new ticket outlet in the St Davids shopping centre, ticketmaster  and the ticket office in Cardiff Arms Park pre match

Have to agree Llandre. I have been going to internationals regularly for about 7 years and it was the worst atmosphere I have ever known. 

Refused to pay to go during the autumn in a bid to save some money for Scarlets trips but had a free ticket for Saturday. Certainly glad I didn't pay £30 - £40 to sit through that.


-------------
Scarlets elite away supporters - Con Air


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 4:11pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Shingler was the sensible option on the bench. Has played lock, 6 and even 7. I would have included a lock on the bench. Lou, Dom, Shingler - anybody.

Perhaps they wouldn't have played better than Mcusker, who knows. I'd tell Priestland to kick to touch more anyway instead of infield, which would mean we need more lineout options needed.



Lloyd Peers called up. Smack in the chops for Lou (assuming he was fit).


Posted By: Ian Lewis
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 4:44pm
Never heard of him. Who does he play for.

-------------
It's not always about where you end up, it's about how you get there.


Posted By: A Evans
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 4:47pm
The Spreyes 

-------------
We are Con Air. You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 5:11pm
Good prospect, Wales U20 class of 2011, played for the O's in the LV last week.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 6:26pm
That was a deeply disturbing display. |What strikes me is all the players seem to churn a smart analysis of the game to the press, afterwards. But where was this analysis during the game? Are they capable of deducing whats wrong and changing in mid game or do they rely on the coaches for that too? something psychologically went seriously wrong saturday. are they over coached, physically overworked, mentally underworked? howler and co messed up some selctions with no brad davies on the bench, no hibbard, no phillips too..but thats not the whole answer,the preparation clearly didnt work, It all looked so laboured and laborious,theyd have been better off with johnny vegas in their coaching corner....i saw him give wigan a coaching session on an open top bus, they ate lion bars and visited the glass blowing factory, worked a treat....  
 
Personally id spend more time on the mental this week. Lock them all in a room with pea shooters and argue amongst themselves for 24 hours as to why they were so abysmal. I also like think tanks, sounds zany , but used correctly they could be used to visualize the game. as jezza gusset put it, the ab's are blessed in the brains trust, unlike the welsh team yesterday. force them to think. if all else fails do what gromley owen used to do, get them all to run home behind the team bus ,then spend the day climbing the monkey bars in an ill-fitting slazenger track suit
 
when a man stares into the abyss , only when he sees himself staring back does he find his character
 


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

That was a deeply disturbing display. |What strikes me is all the players seem to churn a smart analysis of the game to the press, afterwards. But where was this analysis during the game? Are they capable of deducing whats wrong and changing in mid game or do they rely on the coaches for that too? something psychologically went seriously wrong saturday. are they over coached, physically overworked, mentally underworked? howler and co messed up some selctions with no brad davies on the bench, no hibbard, no phillips too..but thats not the whole answer,the preparation clearly didnt work, It all looked so laboured and laborious,theyd have been better off with johnny vegas in their coaching corner....i saw him give wigan a coaching session on an open top bus, they ate lion bars and visited the glass blowing factory, worked a treat....  
 

Personally id spend more time on the mental this week. Lock them all in a room with pea shooters and argue amongst themselves for 24 hours as to why they were so abysmal. I also like think tanks, sounds zany , but used correctly they could be used to visualize the game. as jezza gusset put it, the ab's are blessed in the brains trust, unlike the welsh team yesterday. force them to think. if all else fails do what gromley owen used to do, get them all to run home behind the team bus ,then spend the day climbing the monkey bars in an ill-fitting slazenger track suit

 

when a man stares into the abyss , only when he sees himself staring back does he find his character

 



Spot on Roy about the samrt talk after the game, they lost and were comprehensively beaten by a better team. The smart talk should have been "we were poor cos we didnt really try and thought as Grand Slam winners we would win, after all they were only Argentina".



-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 9:42pm
The high risk, high return offloading game has been coached out of the Welsh side.  We are left with a squad of muscle bound , brain dead (rugby brain) poderous gorrilas, up for a scrap but bemused by a team that offers something outside of the norm of British rugby. We have been taken down a path which enters a tunnel that has no light at the end of it.
Until we play Summer rugby and develop the approprate skills the lght will remain off.
New Zealand looked lean, fit, flexible and intelligent and a breath of fresh air compared to what we see in the Premiership and Pro 12 week in week out.


-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

That was a deeply disturbing display. |What strikes me is all the players seem to churn a smart analysis of the game to the press, afterwards. But where was this analysis during the game? Are they capable of deducing whats wrong and changing in mid game or do they rely on the coaches for that too? something psychologically went seriously wrong saturday. are they over coached, physically overworked, mentally underworked? howler and co messed up some selctions with no brad davies on the bench, no hibbard, no phillips too..but thats not the whole answer,the preparation clearly didnt work, It all looked so laboured and laborious,theyd have been better off with johnny vegas in their coaching corner....i saw him give wigan a coaching session on an open top bus, they ate lion bars and visited the glass blowing factory, worked a treat....  
 

Personally id spend more time on the mental this week. Lock them all in a room with pea shooters and argue amongst themselves for 24 hours as to why they were so abysmal. I also like think tanks, sounds zany , but used correctly they could be used to visualize the game. as jezza gusset put it, the ab's are blessed in the brains trust, unlike the welsh team yesterday. force them to think. if all else fails do what gromley owen used to do, get them all to run home behind the team bus ,then spend the day climbing the monkey bars in an ill-fitting slazenger track suit

 

when a man stares into the abyss , only when he sees himself staring back does he find his character

 


Amen to that.

The post is so succinct that there is nothing further one can add.



Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 1:04am
Deeply disturbing display?
You make it sound like you were watching some live natural disaster on CNN or something Roy mun?

The Argentinians were physically better prepared and better organised tha Wales.

Rugby is n awful lot about who comes out of changing room best prepared for the challenge on the field.
Wales came second.
Pretty simple really.

I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 6:35am
Great post Roy. Totally surreal mind so i think it was.


Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 6:52am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:



I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.


Ha! You should have seen Scarlets at Worcester. First half was brilliant then they decided to switch to plan B and kick away possession at every chance.



Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 7:04am
Maybe I should have added '...when they are losing'!

(although changing when they are winning is more bizarre!)


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:12am
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:



I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.


Ha! You should have seen Scarlets at Worcester. First half was brilliant then they decided to switch to plan B and kick away possession at every chance.

 
So there is a plan C then,,,Big smile
 
 


-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:49am
More like a DD Plan as we were playing like massive tits.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Deeply disturbing display?
You make it sound like you were watching some live natural disaster on CNN or something Roy mun?

The Argentinians were physically better prepared and better organised tha Wales.

Rugby is n awful lot about who comes out of changing room best prepared for the challenge on the field.
Wales came second.
Pretty simple really.

I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.

This surprises me. Look at the way teams "step up a gear" or "slow the pace down" and start deliberately kicking for the corners, targeting an identified weak wing/full back etc etc etc

Perhaps we are not talking about the same inference of what a plan constitutes here but I have seen many examples of heads up rugby by teams - also in terms of replacements sent on from the bench and modification/variation of tactics which simply aren't working.

I think you're right in that most of the work IS certainly done before the game, and this shouldn't be forgotten in terms of this "plan B" and "heads down rugby" discussion so your point is well-received. If you're saying that teams go out onto the pitch with a better preparation than us,  including telling players do this OR that - in comparison to our one-dimensional orders, then we're most likely describing the same thing, albeit in different ways.

I would be interested to know the players' instructions before the game versus Argentina (or a lot of games) and compare this to other sides' preparations. I know it won't happen though.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:06am
That's not a team changing tactics really, that's an individual chosing a different option (invariably the 10).

Different versions of a plan b I think.


Posted By: geordie scarlet
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Deeply disturbing display?
You make it sound like you were watching some live natural disaster on CNN or something Roy mun?

The Argentinians were physically better prepared and better organised tha Wales.

Rugby is n awful lot about who comes out of changing room best prepared for the challenge on the field.
Wales came second.
Pretty simple really.

I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.
 
Argentina had 3 months and 6 tough games together as a squad prior to this game. Wales had 8 days. Think there is a stat out there that says Wales have not won their opening Autumn international game for a good few years


-------------
Toontotown challenges have now raised £101,321 for charity www.toontotown.co.uk

You cant buy Scarlet culture........You have to breed Scarlet culture
Proud member of Herman Tours


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Deeply disturbing display?
You make it sound like you were watching some live natural disaster on CNN or something Roy mun?

The Argentinians were physically better prepared and better organised tha Wales.

Rugby is n awful lot about who comes out of changing room best prepared for the challenge on the field.
Wales came second.
Pretty simple really.

I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.
 
 
LOLLOLLOL
 
 
 


-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 9:57am
England against Wales in WC 03? When they brought Mike Catt on?

I'm sure decisions are communicated to the 10 from other positions as well - or forwards taking it on themselves and so on.

Anyway, whatever you wish to call it, be it a plan B or multiple options in the pre-determined gameplan, are you suggesting we had a lack of variation off our 10, which was Rhys? I know you've picked Hook at 10 for the next match on a rival forum so do you see this as part of the problem for our predictable, mono-tempo and unpenetrative attacking play? He's good with Roberts or Foxy on the crash ball at 12 but take that away....

I know you're saying "they simply were better" but I'm asking WHY because I think we need to get further than that. Or are we simply overrating Wales and our players and/or underrating the Argentines? I was very impressed with them BTW.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 10:58am
Fair questiosn Doc, if I knew the exact answers I' be in the Vale with the boys today mun...

Rhys' natural game has more running and passing than the Team Wales play box has in it. So we are restricting his individual influence on the game by asking him to run a very narrow, but historically effective set of game plays. Coaches like him for this.

My point on picking Hook was on the basis of resting Rhys (I'm not so sure we can now by the way-Friday is a must win for ranking, but mostly from covering Howley's arse). and that playing him outside a 10 in the current Wales set of game plays is wasted as he doesn't do 'collision'.

As the game wore on we did see Rhys (and other backs) try and take more on, (attempt a plan b if you like) a couple of attempted line breaks...however no one was expecting that, and so they ended up isolated and often turned over...

Mid game improvisation has probably been more in the Welsh rugby DNA than most countries, it's been shelved for a more regimented approach which demands high levels of physicality, big lads across the park, and an effetive kicking game to back it up.

Hard to argue against it having a good impact, with Grand slams in the bag etc, but it really does have a major drawback from what i can see...it can only take you so far. #

Once the oppostion match the size, physicality and read the plays then Wales are like the end of a Spike Milligan sketch...What shall we do now...What shall we do now..

Teh ley difference in the Argentine approach wasn't their game plays,they were pretty simialr and similarly neutered, but when they had frwards runnign they were lookig to stand up and off load...Wales' forwards went to ground quicker than a meerkat in eagle territory.
They scored their tries from this.

Like you i thought they were great...think thy will give France a very close game and beat Ireland..


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Fair questiosn Doc, if I knew the exact answers I' be in the Vale with the boys today mun... 

If only Wil...

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

 Rhys' natural game has more running and passing than the Team Wales play box has in it. So we are restricting his individual influence on the game by asking him to run a very narrow, but historically effective set of game plays. Coaches like him for this.

My point on picking Hook was on the basis of resting Rhys (I'm not so sure we can now by the way-Friday is a must win for ranking, but mostly from covering Howley's arse). and that playing him outside a 10 in the current Wales set of game plays is wasted as he doesn't do 'collision'.

As the game wore on we did see Rhys (and other backs) try and take more on, (attempt a plan b if you like) a couple of attempted line breaks...however no one was expecting that, and so they ended up isolated and often turned over...

Mid game improvisation has probably been more in the Welsh rugby DNA than most countries, it's been shelved for a more regimented approach which demands high levels of physicality, big lads across the park, and an effetive kicking game to back it up.

Hard to argue against it having a good impact, with Grand slams in the bag etc, but it really does have a major drawback from what i can see...it can only take you so far. #

Once the oppostion match the size, physicality and read the plays then Wales are like the end of a Spike Milligan sketch...What shall we do now...What shall we do now..

Teh ley difference in the Argentine approach wasn't their game plays,they were pretty simialr and similarly neutered, but when they had frwards runnign they were lookig to stand up and off load...Wales' forwards went to ground quicker than a meerkat in eagle territory.
They scored their tries from this.

Like you i thought they were great...think thy will give France a very close game and beat Ireland..

Very fair assessment - Roberts for Hook so early on was a killer as we are too dependent on a crash ball 12 now (sorry, I know I'm repeating myself). 

As to an offload game, this has been a concern for so long now - offload, turnovers and quick ball are what create tries and we currently have no real threat for any of these. As a passing side we are fairly rubbish - I think Argentina look every bit a top 4 nation and we looked like a 5-8 one. They have some very high quality forwards plus a couple of exciting wingers outside of fairly average centres and this was enough to do the job on us.

We looked like a side playing our first international for ages whereas they looked like one experienced to playing with each other and comfortable with their game plan. This is mainly because well, we were and they are.

Tough warm up fixture, that's for sure and it's chucked up some issues for Wales to address if we are to progress - from this point of view this defeat has actually been a good thing. As to whether those questions can be answered is another....


Posted By: LLANDRE
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 2:54pm
Argentina have been a top side ever since i can remember

-------------
West is Best (Fin gwybod)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 7:32pm
we the fans havent underestimated argentina...theyre a ferocious hard working tight knit pack of forwards, adept at controlling the pace of the game with their recycling and slowing possession...I love their doggedness and togetherness...also their backs have become better over the years...theyre like a new improved version of italy. we knew all this. the problem is what did we actally do to counter it? whilst we were unlucky to get roberts, awj injured mid game , added to foxy , adam and ryan....we also didnt make it easy on ourselves, we failed to pick brad (on the bench), spikey and hibbard, 3 huge powerful ball carrying players. knowing we already missed lydiate and ryan jones,plus foxy in the backs, this was self-defeating.
 
who was making the hard yards? toby alone. josh did ok defensively but offensively hes not quite at the level of the others yet. warburton was quiet at breakdown and didnt carry.
 
awj injured was a disaster, having no replacement was even worse. then without doctor bob and foxy we had no ferocious centres, capable of getting beyond the gainline. so we end up with no momentum, few ball carriers, we didnt get behind them nor did we get the offloading game going and just played sideways rugby all game.
 
as for defensively, their first try was very well executed though Id question the tacklers allowing each runner to release those passes and id question hapennys positional play. but hats off it was a class try. the other try was shambolic defence. they had 3 attackers to our 5 defenders, the one dummy runner sucked in 3 welsh defenders and the wingers squeezed in. why on earth did 3 defenders decide to go for the dummy runner. no confidence on the inside tackler?
that was a soft try. but again the argies were street smart and it worked a treat.
 
 


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

we the fans havent underestimated argentina...theyre a ferocious hard working tight knit pack of forwards, adept at controlling the pace of the game with their recycling and slowing possession...I love their doggedness and togetherness...also their backs have become better over the years...theyre like a new improved version of italy. we knew all this. the problem is what did we actally do to counter it? whilst we were unlucky to get roberts, awj injured mid game , added to foxy , adam and ryan....we also didnt make it easy on ourselves, we failed to pick brad (on the bench), spikey and hibbard, 3 huge powerful ball carrying players. knowing we already missed lydiate and ryan jones,plus foxy in the backs, this was self-defeating.
 
who was making the hard yards? toby alone. josh did ok defensively but offensively hes not quite at the level of the others yet. warburton was quiet at breakdown and didnt carry.
 
awj injured was a disaster, having no replacement was even worse. then without doctor bob and foxy we had no ferocious centres, capable of getting beyond the gainline. so we end up with no momentum, few ball carriers, we didnt get behind them nor did we get the offloading game going and just played sideways rugby all game.
 
as for defensively, their first try was very well executed though Id question the tacklers allowing each runner to release those passes and id question hapennys positional play. but hats off it was a class try. the other try was shambolic defence. they had 3 attackers to our 5 defenders, the one dummy runner sucked in 3 welsh defenders and the wingers squeezed in. why on earth did 3 defenders decide to go for the dummy runner. no confidence on the inside tackler?
that was a soft try. but again the argies were street smart and it worked a treat.
 
 
I thought you knew something about rugby ....Iesu

-------------
I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

we the fans havent underestimated argentina...theyre a ferocious hard working tight knit pack of forwards, adept at controlling the pace of the game with their recycling and slowing possession...I love their doggedness and togetherness...also their backs have become better over the years...theyre like a new improved version of italy. we knew all this. the problem is what did we actally do to counter it? whilst we were unlucky to get roberts, awj injured mid game , added to foxy , adam and ryan....we also didnt make it easy on ourselves, we failed to pick brad (on the bench), spikey and hibbard, 3 huge powerful ball carrying players. knowing we already missed lydiate and ryan jones,plus foxy in the backs, this was self-defeating.
 
who was making the hard yards? toby alone. josh did ok defensively but offensively hes not quite at the level of the others yet. warburton was quiet at breakdown and didnt carry.
 
awj injured was a disaster, having no replacement was even worse. then without doctor bob and foxy we had no ferocious centres, capable of getting beyond the gainline. so we end up with no momentum, few ball carriers, we didnt get behind them nor did we get the offloading game going and just played sideways rugby all game.
 
as for defensively, their first try was very well executed though Id question the tacklers allowing each runner to release those passes and id question hapennys positional play. but hats off it was a class try. the other try was shambolic defence. they had 3 attackers to our 5 defenders, the one dummy runner sucked in 3 welsh defenders and the wingers squeezed in. why on earth did 3 defenders decide to go for the dummy runner. no confidence on the inside tackler?
that was a soft try. but again the argies were street smart and it worked a treat.
 
 
I thought you knew something about rugby ....Iesu
whats with this hibbard bash? is it the odd moment of indiscipline or is it the hair-doo?

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

we the fans havent underestimated argentina...theyre a ferocious hard working tight knit pack of forwards, adept at controlling the pace of the game with their recycling and slowing possession...I love their doggedness and togetherness...also their backs have become better over the years...theyre like a new improved version of italy. we knew all this. the problem is what did we actally do to counter it? whilst we were unlucky to get roberts, awj injured mid game , added to foxy , adam and ryan....we also didnt make it easy on ourselves, we failed to pick brad (on the bench), spikey and hibbard, 3 huge powerful ball carrying players. knowing we already missed lydiate and ryan jones,plus foxy in the backs, this was self-defeating.
 
who was making the hard yards? toby alone. josh did ok defensively but offensively hes not quite at the level of the others yet. warburton was quiet at breakdown and didnt carry.
 
awj injured was a disaster, having no replacement was even worse. then without doctor bob and foxy we had no ferocious centres, capable of getting beyond the gainline. so we end up with no momentum, few ball carriers, we didnt get behind them nor did we get the offloading game going and just played sideways rugby all game.
 
as for defensively, their first try was very well executed though Id question the tacklers allowing each runner to release those passes and id question hapennys positional play. but hats off it was a class try. the other try was shambolic defence. they had 3 attackers to our 5 defenders, the one dummy runner sucked in 3 welsh defenders and the wingers squeezed in. why on earth did 3 defenders decide to go for the dummy runner. no confidence on the inside tackler?
that was a soft try. but again the argies were street smart and it worked a treat.
 
 
I thought you knew something about rugby ....Iesu
whats with this hibbard bash? is it the odd moment of indiscipline or is it the hair-doo?
Neither , the guy is a very poor player without the basic skills to make it at regional level , let alone international level...Every time i see him failing to find his jumpers and he allways lays on the wrong side of the ruck , which allways gives a ref the chance to ping us ...The guy is bloody useless...allways has been and allways will be

-------------
I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

we the fans havent underestimated argentina...theyre a ferocious hard working tight knit pack of forwards, adept at controlling the pace of the game with their recycling and slowing possession...I love their doggedness and togetherness...also their backs have become better over the years...theyre like a new improved version of italy. we knew all this. the problem is what did we actally do to counter it? whilst we were unlucky to get roberts, awj injured mid game , added to foxy , adam and ryan....we also didnt make it easy on ourselves, we failed to pick brad (on the bench), spikey and hibbard, 3 huge powerful ball carrying players. knowing we already missed lydiate and ryan jones,plus foxy in the backs, this was self-defeating.
 
who was making the hard yards? toby alone. josh did ok defensively but offensively hes not quite at the level of the others yet. warburton was quiet at breakdown and didnt carry.
 
awj injured was a disaster, having no replacement was even worse. then without doctor bob and foxy we had no ferocious centres, capable of getting beyond the gainline. so we end up with no momentum, few ball carriers, we didnt get behind them nor did we get the offloading game going and just played sideways rugby all game.
 
as for defensively, their first try was very well executed though Id question the tacklers allowing each runner to release those passes and id question hapennys positional play. but hats off it was a class try. the other try was shambolic defence. they had 3 attackers to our 5 defenders, the one dummy runner sucked in 3 welsh defenders and the wingers squeezed in. why on earth did 3 defenders decide to go for the dummy runner. no confidence on the inside tackler?
that was a soft try. but again the argies were street smart and it worked a treat.
 
 
I thought you knew something about rugby ....Iesu
whats with this hibbard bash? is it the odd moment of indiscipline or is it the hair-doo?
Neither , the guy is a very poor player without the basic skills to make it at regional level , let alone international level...Every time i see him failing to find his jumpers and he allways lays on the wrong side of the ruck , which allways gives a ref the chance to ping us ...The guy is bloody useless...allways has been and allways will be
most welsh hookers couldnt strike a sows anus with a chello, there must be more to it, come on michael admit it, he used to steal your dinner money 


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

we the fans havent underestimated argentina...theyre a ferocious hard working tight knit pack of forwards, adept at controlling the pace of the game with their recycling and slowing possession...I love their doggedness and togetherness...also their backs have become better over the years...theyre like a new improved version of italy. we knew all this. the problem is what did we actally do to counter it? whilst we were unlucky to get roberts, awj injured mid game , added to foxy , adam and ryan....we also didnt make it easy on ourselves, we failed to pick brad (on the bench), spikey and hibbard, 3 huge powerful ball carrying players. knowing we already missed lydiate and ryan jones,plus foxy in the backs, this was self-defeating.
 
who was making the hard yards? toby alone. josh did ok defensively but offensively hes not quite at the level of the others yet. warburton was quiet at breakdown and didnt carry.
 
awj injured was a disaster, having no replacement was even worse. then without doctor bob and foxy we had no ferocious centres, capable of getting beyond the gainline. so we end up with no momentum, few ball carriers, we didnt get behind them nor did we get the offloading game going and just played sideways rugby all game.
 
as for defensively, their first try was very well executed though Id question the tacklers allowing each runner to release those passes and id question hapennys positional play. but hats off it was a class try. the other try was shambolic defence. they had 3 attackers to our 5 defenders, the one dummy runner sucked in 3 welsh defenders and the wingers squeezed in. why on earth did 3 defenders decide to go for the dummy runner. no confidence on the inside tackler?
that was a soft try. but again the argies were street smart and it worked a treat.
 
 
I thought you knew something about rugby ....Iesu
whats with this hibbard bash? is it the odd moment of indiscipline or is it the hair-doo?
Neither , the guy is a very poor player without the basic skills to make it at regional level , let alone international level...Every time i see him failing to find his jumpers and he allways lays on the wrong side of the ruck , which allways gives a ref the chance to ping us ...The guy is bloody useless...allways has been and allways will be
most welsh hookers couldnt strike a sows anus with a chello, there must be more to it, come on michael admit it, he used to steal your dinner money 

Not judging from the evidence. Wink


Posted By: SMELLYMIKE
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 8:57pm
Cmon on now guys , i would love to be hibbards age again , but wait until you see the new me ...10 weeks ago i was 104kg and im now down to 91kg......feeling a lot better with myself and im a much nicer personWink

-------------
I am only responsible for what I say. Not for what you understand


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14 November 2012 at 10:51am
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Cmon on now guys , i would love to be hibbards age again , but wait until you see the new me ...10 weeks ago i was 104kg and im now down to 91kg......feeling a lot better with myself and im a much nicer personWink
whats that in stone?


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 14 November 2012 at 10:57am
Originally posted by SMELLYMIKE SMELLYMIKE wrote:

Cmon on now guys , i would love to be hibbards age again , but wait until you see the new me ...10 weeks ago i was 104kg and im now down to 91kg......feeling a lot better with myself and im a much nicer personWink
Good effort, keep up the hard work, and do some Burpees! Clap You need to update your Avatar picture I think, to promote the NEW you Wink


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Scarlets!!!


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 14 November 2012 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Abbey Abbey wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:



I have yet to see any rugby team, at any level, be able to switch to a 'Plan B' mid way through a game.


Ha! You should have seen Scarlets at Worcester. First half was brilliant then they decided to switch to plan B and kick away possession at every chance.

I was going to say! LOL


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Scarlets!!!



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