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Scrum 5 (1/10/17)

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Topic: Scrum 5 (1/10/17)
Posted By: philtheturk56
Subject: Scrum 5 (1/10/17)
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 7:37pm
Interesting comment made on the show tonight, with a referral of how Pivac dealt with a player revolt at the start of his appointment...ship them out...

Some did go/depart after his appointment!





Replies:
Posted By: PearlJam
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 8:03pm
I think it's been noted on here that Phil John, Snyman, Earle and McCusker didn't agree with his methods and paid the price. I mean, who would argue with that logic now?

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If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.


Posted By: scarletsrules
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 8:05pm
Totally agree with the board backing Pivac, no player is bigger than the club and the head coach should always be respected by all players


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 9:18pm
Proof of the pudding and all that ......


Posted By: Scarletstarch
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 9:29pm
No matter how popular a player is with the supporters the Coach has the final say and must not be questioned or challenged on his decisions!


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"YMA O HYD"


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 9:45pm
Nothing wrong with questioning the coach but all depends on how you go about it. All successful teams are on the same page; Pivac doesn't want a squad of yes men but thinkers who will see the bigger plan and try to fit in with its implementation. When this plan has proven to work why wouldn't you support it? 


Posted By: Dafen Boy
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 9:48pm
I thought the great discomfort about the Cardiff situation was very telling


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by Dafen Boy Dafen Boy wrote:

I thought the great discomfort about the Cardiff situation was very telling

As was Jackson's comment about Ponty fans not buying into the Blues.

By the way, anyone know if all 4 of those forwards that left the Scarlets were disputing the same coaching methods, (and what were the objections), or were there different objections from each player?



Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 01 October 2017 at 11:47pm
Does it matter? It was about 3 years ago and none of the exited players have moved the world. I recall all the bitching about Pivac as well who have gone very quiet. Where are their apologies now men of principles? 🤔


Posted By: ScarletBear
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 2:34am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Originally posted by Dafen Boy Dafen Boy wrote:

I thought the great discomfort about the Cardiff situation was very telling

As was Jackson's comment about Ponty fans not buying into the Blues.

By the way, anyone know if all 4 of those forwards that left the Scarlets were disputing the same coaching methods, (and what were the objections), or were there different objections from each player?


I was reading a blog by a guy called Steve. A Cardiff and Blues fan bemoaning the fall of his team. He is from the valleys himself but doesn't see the valleys per se as being anti-Cardiff, just Ponty. I think he has a point. If I had to name a whinging set of rugby fans it would be the Ponty fans. At best their team was just pretty good.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 8:13am
Pontypridd will never forgive not being somehow a bigger part of the regional set up. Exactly how mystifies me. They were a very good team at one time but so were Neath & Swansea & they bought in to the regional idea. The demise of the Blues and to a lesser extent the Ospreys is very bad news for all of us in Wales and the sooner the WRU get to grips with the issues the better for all concerned. 


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 8:26am
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

I think it's been noted on here that Phil John, Snyman, Earle and McCusker didn't agree with his methods and paid the price. I mean, who would argue with that logic now?
Yep.đź‘Ť


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 8:33am
Yeah but Neath and Swansea had the Neath Swansea Ospreys. If Ponty became the 'Pontypridd Cardiff Ravens' then I'm sure they'd have all bought into it. Can't say I blame them as things stand. Cardiff Blues are arguably a club not a region (set up differently to the other 4 regions) so if any of us had been Ponty fans I doubt we'd be going to the Arms Park too often.


Posted By: ScarletSpiderman
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 9:50am
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Originally posted by Dafen Boy Dafen Boy wrote:

I thought the great discomfort about the Cardiff situation was very telling

As was Jackson's comment about Ponty fans not buying into the Blues.

By the way, anyone know if all 4 of those forwards that left the Scarlets were disputing the same coaching methods, (and what were the objections), or were there different objections from each player?


I was reading a blog by a guy called Steve. A Cardiff and Blues fan bemoaning the fall of his team. He is from the valleys himself but doesn't see the valleys per se as being anti-Cardiff, just Ponty. I think he has a point. If I had to name a whinging set of rugby fans it would be the Ponty fans. At best their team was just pretty good.
 
The Blues have had Ponty as part of the system since the second season of regionalism.  So since then they had the 'glory' days of the HC Semi, Amlin and EDF titles.  They had fans filling the stadium, and they had so many fans they decided a move to the CCS was a good idea.
 
Now they are playing cac, and the fans are not turning up.  Now they decide that Ponty are a problem.  Its a shame really that they are still looking to make excuses.


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 10:09am
I'm not in favour of opening the old wounds of the players that left and their complaints regarding Wayne Pivac, just very curious as to what they could possibly have found to complain about. At the time I didn't even realize that there was any friction.

As for Ponty fans I can understand why most have little to do with the Blues, as the valleys character is quite distinct and has traditionally suspected that the city slickers look down on them, taking their best players and others from all over Wales ( we also have suffered -possibly even more) . It is a pity that the WRU could not find a way of keeping the Celtic Warriors in being, as now there is a huge  rugby playing/supporting population in the eastern valleys with no region to really feel connected to.
If the Scarlets went out of business I would be in exactly the same position.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Yeah but Neath and Swansea had the Neath Swansea Ospreys. If Ponty became the 'Pontypridd Cardiff Ravens' then I'm sure they'd have all bought into it. Can't say I blame them as things stand. Cardiff Blues are arguably a club not a region (set up differently to the other 4 regions) so if any of us had been Ponty fans I doubt we'd be going to the Arms Park too often.

I take your point Rich. Very unfortunate if a rugby stronghold is not being made good use of. 


Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 10:34am
It's not just ponty fans. Many fans in the valleys can't stand Cardiff as it's always about them and they call it jobs for the boys. They bring through players who knows someone and takes a place over a valleys player arguably better. They need to get rid of the big heads at blues before any sign of progress is to be made. Capital region what a waste.


Posted By: alec_d
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Yeah but Neath and Swansea had the Neath Swansea Ospreys. If Ponty became the 'Pontypridd Cardiff Ravens' then I'm sure they'd have all bought into it. Can't say I blame them as things stand. Cardiff Blues are arguably a club not a region (set up differently to the other 4 regions) so if any of us had been Ponty fans I doubt we'd be going to the Arms Park too often.

They did have their own region to support,in the form of Celtic warriors,a mixture of them and Bridgend,they chose not to support it,they even played at sardis rd as well as brewery field


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pontypridd will never forgive not being somehow a bigger part of the regional set up. Exactly how mystifies me. They were a very good team at one time but so were Neath & Swansea & they bought in to the regional idea. The demise of the Blues and to a lesser extent the Ospreys is very bad news for all of us in Wales and the sooner the WRU get to grips with the issues the better for all concerned. 
I wouldn't read too much into an ospreys demise until Saturday evening gareth.you can call it what you want then.Big smile


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pontypridd will never forgive not being somehow a bigger part of the regional set up. Exactly how mystifies me. They were a very good team at one time but so were Neath & Swansea & they bought in to the regional idea. The demise of the Blues and to a lesser extent the Ospreys is very bad news for all of us in Wales and the sooner the WRU get to grips with the issues the better for all concerned. 
I wouldn't read too much into an ospreys demise until Saturday evening gareth.you can call it what you want then.Big smile

I'm certainly not Nige. This will be one of our toughest games this season. My comment is really about how the season has started for the Welsh regions. Picking an International squad at the moment for Gatland is going to be based more on reputation than form. Some will say business as usual then!!!!!


Posted By: najbritcol
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pontypridd will never forgive not being somehow a bigger part of the regional set up. Exactly how mystifies me. They were a very good team at one time but so were Neath & Swansea & they bought in to the regional idea. The demise of the Blues and to a lesser extent the Ospreys is very bad news for all of us in Wales and the sooner the WRU get to grips with the issues the better for all concerned. 
I wouldn't read too much into an ospreys demise until Saturday evening gareth.you can call it what you want then.Big smile

I'm certainly not Nige. This will be one of our toughest games this season. My comment is really about how the season has started for the Welsh regions. Picking an International squad at the moment for Gatland is going to be based more on reputation than form. Some will say business as usual then!!!!!

Yes and no.  The back row in particular has a lot of injuries, Gatland's darling boy Anscombe is also out, and Cuthbert does seem to have fallen out of favour with the Wales management.  Selections will be interesting this time.


Posted By: Bryn A! Wel!
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 5:43pm
“When that happened in Llanelli (Scarlets) where players went and undermined (Wayne) Pivac, he got rid of them straight away, and the chairman backed the coach.

That's a quote from Wales online article reporting Gwyn Jones' outburst against Peter Thomas. What he was talking about was an alleged back channel between players and chairman in Cardiff, where complaints about the coach were aired.

What I'd like to know is who the culprits in the Scarlets were?


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Fy nheml sy'n yr Emlyn


Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Bryn A! Wel! Bryn A! Wel! wrote:

<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 16px;">“</span><i style="">When that happened in Llanelli (Scarlets) where players went and undermined (Wayne) Pivac, he got rid of them straight away, and the chairman backed the coach.</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><i style="">
</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><font size="3" style="">That's a quote from Wales online article reporting Gwyn Jones' outburst against Peter Thomas. What he was talking about was an alleged back channel between players and chairman in Cardiff, where complaints about the coach were aired.</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><font size="3" style="">
</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><font size="3" style="">What I'd like to know is who the culprits in the Scarlets </span><span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif; font-size: medium;">were</span><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;">?</span>

I'd guess the ones who left during and at the end of the first season we had pivac.


Posted By: Bryn A! Wel!
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

Originally posted by Bryn A! Wel! Bryn A! Wel! wrote:

<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 16px;">“</span><i style="">When that happened in Llanelli (Scarlets) where players went and undermined (Wayne) Pivac, he got rid of them straight away, and the chairman backed the coach.</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><i style="">
</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><font size="3" style="">That's a quote from Wales online article reporting Gwyn Jones' outburst against Peter Thomas. What he was talking about was an alleged back channel between players and chairman in Cardiff, where complaints about the coach were aired.</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><font size="3" style="">
</span>
<span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;"><font size="3" style="">What I'd like to know is who the culprits in the Scarlets </span><span style="color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif; font-size: medium;">were</span><span style="font-size: medium; color: rgb20, 20, 20; font-family: " Sans", sans-serif;">?</span>

I'd guess the ones who left during and at the end of the first season we had pivac.

Yes, thank you. I had in fact intended my post to open a separate topic without realising that this issue was covered under this topic title. Mods have rightly placed it under this title. Apologies.


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Fy nheml sy'n yr Emlyn


Posted By: Speedy
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Yeah but Neath and Swansea had the Neath Swansea Ospreys. If Ponty became the 'Pontypridd Cardiff Ravens' then I'm sure they'd have all bought into it. Can't say I blame them as things stand. Cardiff Blues are arguably a club not a region (set up differently to the other 4 regions) so if any of us had been Ponty fans I doubt we'd be going to the Arms Park too often.

They had the celtic warriors and failed to support it.

They also had the option to join us in our fight for stand alone, but chose to get into bed with Samuels instead, as neef did with the Jacks.

When you look at how Ebbw faired with Newort too, you can kind of see why it was crucial we protected our status.

Any town team merging with a city was just being gobbled up under the "regional" mantra.


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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN7pGq1i2jhev2YLcZ89h7Q/videos" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN7pGq1i2jhev2YLcZ89h7Q/videos


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 8:54pm
No one has a right to professional rugby. Not us, not Cardiff, certainly not Pontypridd.
It has to be paid for, and people have had to work extremely hard to bring in support and investment also and dip into their own pockets to pay for it. 

All those who whine and bitch just expect someone else to pay. They think somehow putting a team in a "Rugby stronghold" will be enough. It's a sad indictment of Wales, where the mantra is "They should" where "They" means anyone but me and "should" means pay for it.

Quite why people feel that there is some universal right to top flight rugby I don't know. The old clubs are gone because Wales doesn't have enough money or people to fund them. Those who could afford to run rugby teams ran them. 


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: M.M.
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Yeah but Neath and Swansea had the Neath Swansea Ospreys. If Ponty became the 'Pontypridd Cardiff Ravens' then I'm sure they'd have all bought into it. Can't say I blame them as things stand. Cardiff Blues are arguably a club not a region (set up differently to the other 4 regions) so if any of us had been Ponty fans I doubt we'd be going to the Arms Park too often.

They had the celtic warriors and failed to support it.

They also had the option to join us in our fight for stand alone, but chose to get into bed with Samuels instead, as neef did with the Jacks.

When you look at how Ebbw faired with Newort too, you can kind of see why it was crucial we protected our status.

Any town team merging with a city was just being gobbled up under the "regional" mantra.
This. It was a total dog's dinner in 2003. It needed to have been some sort of franchise/tendering process to get the best possible teams in the best possible places going forward, not mergers/geographical choices. 
We are still suffering Cobner's/ Moffett's daft plans.



Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

No one has a right to professional rugby. Not us, not Cardiff, certainly not Pontypridd.
It has to be paid for, and people have had to work extremely hard to bring in support and investment also and dip into their own pockets to pay for it. 

All those who whine and bitch just expect someone else to pay. They think somehow putting a team in a "Rugby stronghold" will be enough. It's a sad indictment of Wales, where the mantra is "They should" where "They" means anyone but me and "should" means pay for it.

Quite why people feel that there is some universal right to top flight rugby I don't know. The old clubs are gone because Wales doesn't have enough money or people to fund them. Those who could afford to run rugby teams ran them. 

Well summed up.


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 9:50pm
Originally posted by alec_d alec_d wrote:

Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Yeah but Neath and Swansea had the Neath Swansea Ospreys. If Ponty became the 'Pontypridd Cardiff Ravens' then I'm sure they'd have all bought into it. Can't say I blame them as things stand. Cardiff Blues are arguably a club not a region (set up differently to the other 4 regions) so if any of us had been Ponty fans I doubt we'd be going to the Arms Park too often.

They did have their own region to support,in the form of Celtic warriors,a mixture of them and Bridgend,they chose not to support it,they even played at sardis rd as well as brewery field


Sorry, totally forgot the Celtic Warriors history for a moment while thinking of the current Blues 'region'.


Posted By: RedZep
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

No one has a right to professional rugby. Not us, not Cardiff, certainly not Pontypridd.
It has to be paid for, and people have had to work extremely hard to bring in support and investment also and dip into their own pockets to pay for it. 

All those who whine and bitch just expect someone else to pay. They think somehow putting a team in a "Rugby stronghold" will be enough. It's a sad indictment of Wales, where the mantra is "They should" where "They" means anyone but me and "should" means pay for it.

Quite why people feel that there is some universal right to top flight rugby I don't know. The old clubs are gone because Wales doesn't have enough money or people to fund them. Those who could afford to run rugby teams ran them. 

Outstanding post, mate. It's been 22 years since the game went pro, Wales will definitely be the last top tier nation to fully embrace this due to the villagist mentality and sense of entitlement of many. 

Unfortunately time will be the only healer. 


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'' Know your three R's, son..... Rugby, Rock and Ridin'!! ''


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 02 October 2017 at 11:30pm
Whether a region has the money to pay for a team isn't completely dependent on the passion of its supporters or the talent of the players it produces. So much depends on the money available from the local industry and directors. Unfortunately Pontypridd and it's hinterland, once the industrial heart of Wales is now its de-industrialised rust belt with high unemployment and the social problems that accompany it. It's not the sort of place where there's a rush to buy season tickets however passionate the supporters are.


Posted By: s.pimpernel
Date Posted: 03 October 2017 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

I think it's been noted on here that Phil John, Snyman, Earle and McCusker didn't agree with his methods and paid the price. I mean, who would argue with that logic now?

You could add about half a dozen more to that list, some of which ARE still with us.




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In Pivac we trust


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 04 October 2017 at 5:11am
gwyn jones was very scathing of pies,he didn't mind taking his money when he left us to play for them.



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