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Over expectations

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Topic: Over expectations
Posted By: Sosban89
Subject: Over expectations
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 3:05pm
I feel that a lot of people here are expecting us to just play in the same manner as we did in the last 3 games of last season.

those 3 performances were exceptional and we didn't string that many great performances together at any other time last season.

3 weeks before the Ospreys game we beat Dragons 21-16. 3 weeks before that we got trounced 45-9 by Leinster and before that we had close games with both the Scottish clubs.

We are currently winning most our games, with a good lead to spare, picking up BP and still having lovely tries. Yes mistakes are made but lets not refer every single performance to the superb finale of last season.



Replies:
Posted By: ScarletBear
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 3:26pm
Yes, started to feel the same and I was guilty of these expactations too.

The key is to perform well enough to get into the playoffs and then be abel t lift your game for teh knockout stages. I still have hope we can get through in Europe.


Posted By: InTheBath
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 3:32pm
Agreed, we're all expecting perfect performances with huge intensity every week - there is no way that will happen.

We're still winning, scoring a lot tries and our shape/pettenrs/units are ok. We're learning how to attack again as teams are trying to work us out and we've been playing with a lot of first choice forwards being rested.

The only real disappointment was the first 20 in Toulon and Bath at home - unfortunately they both did big damage to the season.


Posted By: PTScarlet
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 3:46pm
Should we as fans be wrong for setting the standards really high? We saw last season that this team can throw the ball around consistently scoring tries. So why shouldn't the paying customer expect to see this rugby week in week out ?

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One eyed turk, nothing more nothing less.


Posted By: Dafen Boy
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by PTScarlet PTScarlet wrote:

Should we as fans be wrong for setting the standards really high? We saw last season that this team can throw the ball around consistently scoring tries. So why shouldn't the paying customer expect to see this rugby week in week out ?

We didn't do it week in week out though, just at the very end in dry weather.  That was a purple patch, and is is hard to play that way every week.


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 3:57pm
I certainly don't expect faultless performances or that we thrash everybody that we play. My only expectation is that we learn from our mistakes and do our best to correct them. 


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 4:00pm
We're missing JB and Cubby. Hard as Boyde works and as good as he is, he can't rectify that double loss on his own. Also he doesn't roam as wide as either JB or Cubby do. Tadhg at no. 8 might be a success in time but the first Euro game of the season wasn't the best time to start the transition. I think we will have a purple patch again this season- the trouble is it has to come in mid winter to stay in Europe and then again in April to do damage in KO stages of either competition. 


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 4:43pm
It's clearly not just us fans though every time Pivac or any player interviewed after game they are not happy with way we are playing and know there is an improvement in our game.
That is what fuels my expectation we aren't far off getting it right when we do someone is in for hiding.

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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 4:46pm
8 is the key problem , barclays loss plus cubby was a killer. I was disappointed we havent used macleod or boyde at 8. Also the jack condy situation is perplexing. He seems to be playing regularly for the rfc but they dont seem to want to risk him due to a previous knee injury?

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Tim Opolis
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 4:49pm
The emphasis this season was Europe and we had to peak for it. We produced a very poor first half in Toulon and were dire against Bath. So you have to be honest and say that's not good enough.

You cant (without having mega squads like Saracens and Toulon) be excellent all the time, you will have dips. The secret for us is peaking. We got it bang on last season, for the start of Europe this year (yes it rained and we had a short turnaround) we failed to be anywhere near the level we finished last year at, and that's hugely disappointing. 

I said pre season that I felt we should have signed a big beast of an 8 for those stinking winter nights. Well, we copped a real bad night on our biggest game of the season and Barclay was injured so we got caught with our pants down. I think Tadgh could be a very good 8, but he isnt a natural 8 as of now. Faletau is a world class 8 and was everywhere he should have been that night.

We waited and are still waiting for Moriarty, we took a chance on getting by without an 8. If we're being honest and take our Scarlet tinted glasses off, we got it wrong.

We had a great chance to get out of the group this year, and for me as a progression from last year, last 8 in europe was surely where we should be. People were even tipping us to go all the way.

So, yes, you cant expect us to be world beaters every game, but we really should have been in better shape for Bath, we had an amazing opportunity but effed it up.


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Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 6:30pm
Certainly take Moriarty compared to George North If there was a choice.


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 6:47pm
Bath beat us because they had a top class 8,9,10 axis, much better than ours.

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Keep the faith


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 7:01pm
Great thread.

We had a magical time at the end of last season, it was hardly a reflection on the season as a whole though..even in early April we'd have been happy to even make the play offs on here...the rest was just the sweetest few weeks I've personally had in 40+ years following the club...mainly because our expectations were far lower than our ultimate achievement...

Anyway we have a slight sense of entitlement carried forward to this season...some of it warranted, some of it not...
Teams like Barcelina can put 5 past anyone/anytime, they can also battle out a scrappy 0-0 away to Valledolid the week after..ultimately the 0-0 is just as likely to win the prize as the 5-0.

Great post above says it's about bringing our game to a peak at the right time....in the interim we have to battle out those games where we haven't hit our straps ... And in the league we have achieved that by and large, 1 defeat, 6 wins, 5 of which with a bp....it's great to see us, for once, ahead of other teams who have won the same amount of games as us.

ITB's post is also spot on, the Toulon result was ok (4-1), but the Bath result has probably put us out of Europe ( yes I am actually a believer we can still qualify, but statistically they are stacked against us)...that's a blow to our aspirations this year.

In summary we've had a more than decent start to the league campaign, the jury is out on Europe ( but it doesn't look great).

The point I wanted to get to was the next 2-3 games...those games ( AI window) last year could be argued as the ones that catapulted us up to the play off slots...home BP wins over Glasgow and Leinster..and another BP win away at Zebre...

My 'expectations' this time are tempered by losing a net 5 of the players that were the backbone of that run ( Steff, Parkes, Shingler, Wyn, Aled D, and Patchell...with Scott coming the other way), DTH departing and Cubby missing at least the Treviso game...all class players...

The fixtures are slightly less daunting granted ( Treviso H, Kings and Cheetahs A), but I would be delighted with 8-10 points from those games...that to me is what we can reasonably expect...performance is secondary.

With respect to Prydie, Asquith, Rhys Jones etc it's asking too much of us to absorb the loss of 14 regulars.





Posted By: PearlJam
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by Dafen Boy Dafen Boy wrote:

Originally posted by PTScarlet PTScarlet wrote:

Should we as fans be wrong for setting the standards really high? We saw last season that this team can throw the ball around consistently scoring tries. So why shouldn't the paying customer expect to see this rugby week in week out ?


We didn't do it week in week out though, just at the very end in dry weather.  That was a purple patch, and is is hard to play that way every week.


I think everyone forgets that the final in Dublin was played in the pouring rain after 12 hours of the heavens being open. That didn't stop our style and that was no excuse for the Bath game. Our handling was fine, we were just fatigued after an international standard battle with Toulon 5 days before.

The rain doesn't halt our style and ambition although there is always reasoning to play smart, whatever the weather.

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If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.


Posted By: knutsfordlion
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

The emphasis this season was Europe and we had to peak for it. We produced a very poor first half in Toulon and were dire against Bath. So you have to be honest and say that's not good enough.

You cant (without having mega squads like Saracens and Toulon) be excellent all the time, you will have dips. The secret for us is peaking. We got it bang on last season, for the start of Europe this year (yes it rained and we had a short turnaround) we failed to be anywhere near the level we finished last year at, and that's hugely disappointing. 

I said pre season that I felt we should have signed a big beast of an 8 for those stinking winter nights. Well, we copped a real bad night on our biggest game of the season and Barclay was injured so we got caught with our pants down. I think Tadgh could be a very good 8, but he isnt a natural 8 as of now. Faletau is a world class 8 and was everywhere he should have been that night.

We waited and are still waiting for Moriarty, we took a chance on getting by without an 8. If we're being honest and take our Scarlet tinted glasses off, we got it wrong.

We had a great chance to get out of the group this year, and for me as a progression from last year, last 8 in europe was surely where we should be. People were even tipping us to go all the way.

So, yes, you cant expect us to be world beaters every game, but we really should have been in better shape for Bath, we had an amazing opportunity but effed it up.
 
I'm sorry.
I didn't realise that we were knocked out after two games?
 
We will still get out of this group.
 
Treviso back to back and then Bath on a dry track with Cubby and JB and Rob Evs back, and then Toulon at home.
 
Every chance to progress.


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Page the oracle


Posted By: Tim Opolis
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by knutsfordlion knutsfordlion wrote:

Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

The emphasis this season was Europe and we had to peak for it. We produced a very poor first half in Toulon and were dire against Bath. So you have to be honest and say that's not good enough.

You cant (without having mega squads like Saracens and Toulon) be excellent all the time, you will have dips. The secret for us is peaking. We got it bang on last season, for the start of Europe this year (yes it rained and we had a short turnaround) we failed to be anywhere near the level we finished last year at, and that's hugely disappointing. 

I said pre season that I felt we should have signed a big beast of an 8 for those stinking winter nights. Well, we copped a real bad night on our biggest game of the season and Barclay was injured so we got caught with our pants down. I think Tadgh could be a very good 8, but he isnt a natural 8 as of now. Faletau is a world class 8 and was everywhere he should have been that night.

We waited and are still waiting for Moriarty, we took a chance on getting by without an 8. If we're being honest and take our Scarlet tinted glasses off, we got it wrong.

We had a great chance to get out of the group this year, and for me as a progression from last year, last 8 in europe was surely where we should be. People were even tipping us to go all the way.

So, yes, you cant expect us to be world beaters every game, but we really should have been in better shape for Bath, we had an amazing opportunity but effed it up.
 
I'm sorry.
I didn't realise that we were knocked out after two games?
 
We will still get out of this group.
 
Treviso back to back and then Bath on a dry track with Cubby and JB and Rob Evs back, and then Toulon at home.
 
Every chance to progress.


Sincerely hope your right pal. But expecting a dry track in Bath in January is very optimistic.


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Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.


Posted By: najbritcol
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 10:20pm
Bath have lost at home to both Newcastle and now Gloucester this season, so it is certainly not beyond the realms of possibility for the Scarlets to win at The Rec too.


Posted By: Feverpitch
Date Posted: 29 October 2017 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Certainly take Moriarty compared to George North If there was a choice.


Haven't seen North play at 8 ! He may be ok


Posted By: najbritcol
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 3:05am
Originally posted by Feverpitch Feverpitch wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Certainly take Moriarty compared to George North If there was a choice.


Haven't seen North play at 8 ! He may be ok

He's certainly big enough.Wink


Posted By: s.pimpernel
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 5:40am
Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:


The only real disappointment was the first 20 in Toulon and Bath at home - unfortunately they both did big damage to the season.

Both were disappointing and a big set back, especially the performance and certain individual performances against Bath, but "big damage to the season"??? I can`t agree with that. I think both on and off the pitch we`re in a really good place.

We`re still going great guns in the league and you can see that as we`re the "top boys" all the sides are raising their games against us. We`re now competitive in the Pro 14 and have been for the last 3 seasons. Europe may take a little longer because the standard is higher and even the slightest mistakes get punished. 

What we needed was for this group of forwards to stay together for next season but the loss of Beirne is going to be huge. Replacing him is going to be very difficult and we probably need two more additions as well. If we are to sign Moriarty, I think an early announcement would be a huge boost for the supporters and club.

Next priority is to get two wins (or even two bonus point wins) against Treviso and Kings, then anything against Cheetahs will be a bonus and even a loss won`t be a total disaster.


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In Pivac we trust


Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 10:05am
I think our expectations are high and I also think our performances this season have more or less matched those high expectations. Bath being the only exception.

The commentators on S4C over the weekend mentioned  Grav and his predictions.  They mentioned that in Grav's eyes the Scarlets never lost a single game, although occasionally a team might score more points than us. Smile

Don't stop believing, hold on to that feeling - even if a little over the top at times. 


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 10:29am
Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:


The only real disappointment was the first 20 in Toulon and Bath at home - unfortunately they both did big damage to the season.


I don't think they did big damage to the season. I would like to think we can go into the Benneton double header with a chance of getting 10 points which could put us onto 12 points. I honestly think Toulon & Bath will win one match against each other so they are going to be on or around 13 points from there which means it's still all to play for.


Posted By: multinational
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 10:32am
I’d add that treviso at home in the last round will go for a win against Bath...

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History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 11:36am
People are forgetting that it's a long season. We simply can not play well week in week out. They are human. They are all in training for their bodies to peak at different times of the season.
Main example, Foxy. Showed glimpses of his quality early on by the time the play offs were around and Lions he was possibly the best 13 in the world.
As a team, we are slowly building form, but completely different to previous seasons we are collecting bonus point victories without some key players, without us playing very well- very well being the end of last season), there's many things to work on still and I'm sure all that is going on on the training paddock.
Our 2017 home Pro 12/14 record, so far, reads:
Played: 10
Won: 10
Total points on offer: 50
Total points: 48
Tries scored: 47.
Quite remarkable.
We have another level in us, at the moment this season, we are only seeing it in patches. Soon I'm sure we would have built to a proper 80min performance.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 11:47am
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

People are forgetting that it's a long season. We simply can not play well week in week out. They are human. They are all in training for their bodies to peak at different times of the season.
Main example, Foxy. Showed glimpses of his quality early on by the time the play offs were around and Lions he was possibly the best 13 in the world.
As a team, we are slowly building form, but completely different to previous seasons we are collecting bonus point victories without some key players, without us playing very well- very well being the end of last season), there's many things to work on still and I'm sure all that is going on on the training paddock.
Our 2017 home Pro 12/14 record, so far, reads:
Played: 10
Won: 10
Total points on offer: 50
Total points: 48
Tries scored: 47.
Quite remarkable.
We have another level in us, at the moment this season, we are only seeing it in patches. Soon I'm sure we would have built to a proper 80min performance.

Well pe sa I am not going to try to argue with those stats - quite exceptional. My patience as well as many other forum members has been strained over the years but we are now getting our rewards. Onwards and upwards. 


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 11:50am
The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 

And, of course, the weather. When you are up against a World class 8 with dreadful conditions you don't pick Beirne as your 8 - 1st mistake; 2nd mistake is you have to get your kick chase efficient. For that to happen your 9 has to be able to be consistent in hang time & distance. Game lost. Hopefully our coaches have learnt their lessons. 


Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 12:25pm
That's a nice post PE. Clap

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: InTheBath
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 12:37pm
Perhaps I have gone a bit overboard with 'big damage' but it still hurt us - sapped a lot of momentum out of the club, the atmosphere against Cardiff seemed muted, clubs standing in Europe diminished after so much hope...

But I do think we can qualify if we have a bit of luck in January.


Posted By: PearlJam
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 

And, of course, the weather. When you are up against a World class 8 with dreadful conditions you don't pick Beirne as your 8 - 1st mistake; 2nd mistake is you have to get your kick chase efficient. For that to happen your 9 has to be able to be consistent in hang time & distance. Game lost. Hopefully our coaches have learnt their lessons. 

How has the weather got any bearing on how Beirne played against a World class 8? I don't think there was anything to separate them and Beirne's smarts and ball-handling was instrumental in our try. 

And the kicking game always has to be good, again, nothing to do with the weather - you're just conceding possession if it isn't up to scratch.


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If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose.


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 1:42pm
As good a player as Beirne is certainly international class second row to put him up against surely the best 8 in the world or if not in the top 3 was tough.
Watched Bath v Gloucester the run from Faletau lead up to rockerdergoonie ( no clue on spelling) try was something to behold.
Would love to see Faletau in Scarlet shirt to me he is the one missing link between us winning ECC and not, not that I have given up on this season by any means.


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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 

And, of course, the weather. When you are up against a World class 8 with dreadful conditions you don't pick Beirne as your 8 - 1st mistake; 2nd mistake is you have to get your kick chase efficient. For that to happen your 9 has to be able to be consistent in hang time & distance. Game lost. Hopefully our coaches have learnt their lessons. 

How has the weather got any bearing on how Beirne played against a World class 8? I don't think there was anything to separate them and Beirne's smarts and ball-handling was instrumental in our try. 

And the kicking game always has to be good, again, nothing to do with the weather - you're just conceding possession if it isn't up to scratch.

Let me try to explain. In the conditions against Bath it was always going to be a forward battle with control at 8, 9 & 10 being the key. Faletau was exceptional, Beirne was not; our idea of mixing & matching at 8 came unstuck in my opinion. 

With regard to the box kicking issue this game highlighted our inefficiencies far more than other games as we did more of it due to to conditions. 


Posted By: Dafen Boy
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

I think our expectations are high and I also think our performances this season have more or less matched those high expectations. Bath being the only exception.

The commentators on S4C over the weekend mentioned  Grav and his predictions.  They mentioned that in Grav's eyes the Scarlets never lost a single game, although occasionally a team might score more points than us. Smile

Don't stop believing, hold on to that feeling - even if a little over the top at times. 

A Journey fan, Rob?Wink


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 2:23pm
If cubby had been fit would they have played boyde 8?

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 

And, of course, the weather. When you are up against a World class 8 with dreadful conditions you don't pick Beirne as your 8 - 1st mistake; 2nd mistake is you have to get your kick chase efficient. For that to happen your 9 has to be able to be consistent in hang time & distance. Game lost. Hopefully our coaches have learnt their lessons. 


What other option did we have at 8?


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 

And, of course, the weather. When you are up against a World class 8 with dreadful conditions you don't pick Beirne as your 8 - 1st mistake; 2nd mistake is you have to get your kick chase efficient. For that to happen your 9 has to be able to be consistent in hang time & distance. Game lost. Hopefully our coaches have learnt their lessons. 


What other option did we have at 8?

McLoud at 8, Beirne at 5 Lewis bench.


Posted By: Havard Fan
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:


The reason why the loss at home to bath was so disappointing was that we seemed to make no effort to play the conditions or plan for them. Bath didn't by any means have superior  players/skills (apart from 8 and 9) but chose their side and game plan to make the best use of them.  There is no reason we can't beat them in the return, but not without taking into account their strengths and weaknesses. 


And, of course, the weather. When you are up against a World class 8 with dreadful conditions you don't pick Beirne as your 8 - 1st mistake; 2nd mistake is you have to get your kick chase efficient. For that to happen your 9 has to be able to be consistent in hang time & distance. Game lost. Hopefully our coaches have learnt their lessons. 


What other option did we have at 8?


McLoud at 8, Beirne at 5 Lewis bench.


It's easy to pick holes now as we lost, however Pivac and co went with logically their best 8 forwards. Not sure What the fuss is with Beirne with 8 on his back as he only packs down at 8 on opposition scrums leaving Boyd openside. Our scrums Boyd was at the back of the scrum and Beirne was on the blind side. This decision provided us the option of playing Rawlings in the row, who's been great.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 3:08pm
We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.

Definitely major reasons for the loss, as well as the 5 day turnaround including a long journey back from Toulon - Shingler admitted in an interview that he was heavy-legged, not surprisingly, and I expect the other players were as well. Plus, of course, their kick-chase was much better than ours.
I don't think we're out of Europe yet, but we're definitely outsiders ATM - let's see how things stand after the double headers.

So, the season seems to be coming in two parts - pro-14 (where we are doing really well, winning nearly all games with BPs) and Europe - disappointing so far, but who knows? I think that overall, we're doing better than last season, and have every chance of winning the league again. Hope we can cope with 'lending' so many players to Wales, though!


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Dai38
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 3:46pm
Also our half backs did not really perform against Bath, both have seem to have gone off the boil a bit over the past month or so.

I must admit as a no frill all round scrum half Evans is by far the best we have, the others are better on certain elements but Evans is a bit old fashion and can control a game. I just hope he can show us all over the next month or so how good he is.

It is only my opinion though.

I do worry a bit at no 10, and also who will undertake the kicking duties, especially if Dan does not get picked.


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Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 4:50pm
Clearly Pivac trusts Asquith at 10 so far. Whether that trust extends to starting the next 3 games remains to be seen.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Also our half backs did not really perform against Bath, both have seem to have gone off the boil a bit over the past month or so.

I must admit as a no frill all round scrum half Evans is by far the best we have, the others are better on certain elements but Evans is a bit old fashion and can control a game. I just hope he can show us all over the next month or so how good he is.

It is only my opinion though.

I do worry a bit at no 10, and also who will undertake the kicking duties, especially if Dan does not get picked.


I agree, I am a fan of Jonathan Evans. I also think Patchell plays well with him.


Posted By: ChrisX
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 5:57pm
if asquith plays 10, prydie in as goal kicker?


Posted By: Tim Opolis
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.


The half backs were great but their pack and especially their back row put them on the front foot all night. Faletau was under most of our box kicks running it back at us. When it came to europe and winter time there was always a danger we'd struggle to play our natural game. You therefore have to have more strings to your bow. We were unlucky with both Barclay and Cubby being out but had we been able to sign an 8 in the summer we would have had more depth.

Wayne had a target in mind and if we get him then all will be well, but that decision and a bit of bad luck didnt help us in our campaign 'this' season, when the draw was for once favourable for us. I wonder whether we could have brought someone in on a short term deal? Especially when you consider Condy's level of fitness. 

All water under the bridge now and time for me to draw a line under this. Let's hope we can drag ourselves back into the group. I know Munster have lost the first 2 and still qualified, maybe others too, I cant recall.


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Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.

Discipline cost us the Bath game, simple as! Any team will struggle in the Champions Cup giving away 6 kickable penalties.

We're not out of it yet that's for sure. Thumbs Up


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Scarlets!!!


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 8:16pm
The 5 day turnaround, storm bernie, allied to crucial injuries were all factors. Though Id add Bath had several out too. Priest had a stormer , his aerial kicking was quality too. Evans I also prefer to Aled davies at the moment. He looks a good all rounder. Faletau is possibly the second best 8 in the world so clearly they had a massive edge at 8. I was moaning about the Beirne at 8 selection before Toulon and before Ospreys. Boyde and Macleod would have amply covered 8 and 7 between them. We also had Rawlinsg as cover for second and back row. Barclay is class and cubby is a genius of an openside. If all are fit for the return it will be a classic. 

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.


The half backs were great but their pack and especially their back row put them on the front foot all night. Faletau was under most of our box kicks running it back at us. When it came to europe and winter time there was always a danger we'd struggle to play our natural game. You therefore have to have more strings to your bow. We were unlucky with both Barclay and Cubby being out but had we been able to sign an 8 in the summer we would have had more depth.

Wayne had a target in mind and if we get him then all will be well, but that decision and a bit of bad luck didnt help us in our campaign 'this' season, when the draw was for once favourable for us. I wonder whether we could have brought someone in on a short term deal? Especially when you consider Condy's level of fitness. 

All water under the bridge now and time for me to draw a line under this. Let's hope we can drag ourselves back into the group. I know Munster have lost the first 2 and still qualified, maybe others too, I cant recall.



No doubt it would have helped but the two Scarlet players you pinpointed aren’t 8’s (even if John covers there for us) yet arguably they are the two we missed the most in terms of getting our game going. I was more concerned at the way the front five was going when we needed to truck it up and that we were kicking poorly putting ourselves under enormous pressure. We spent most of the game defending in our own half with the rain and wind lashing around the place. No wonder we coughed up pens. Priestland played the right game fair play. Faletau had a good game, granted, but their whole pack outplayed ours and that was the foundation to their victory - my point being there was far more to our being defeated than Beirne being out of position.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.


Discipline cost us the Bath game, simple as! Any team will struggle in the Champions Cup giving away 6 kickable penalties.

We're not out of it yet that's for sure. Thumbs Up


True, discipline tends to lapse when a team is under pressure. In rotten conditions and missing two turnover kings (and Boyde for that matter) and a front five not suited to up the jumper rugby, on reflection we did ok to get the losing point. Ultimately we coughed up posession, conceeded penalties and territory. You’re quite right. We need to improve on that performance if we’re to claw this campaign back.


Posted By: ScarletBear
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 9:37pm
LOL
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Originally posted by knutsfordlion knutsfordlion wrote:

Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

The emphasis this season was Europe and we had to peak for it. We produced a very poor first half in Toulon and were dire against Bath. So you have to be honest and say that's not good enough.

You cant (without having mega squads like Saracens and Toulon) be excellent all the time, you will have dips. The secret for us is peaking. We got it bang on last season, for the start of Europe this year (yes it rained and we had a short turnaround) we failed to be anywhere near the level we finished last year at, and that's hugely disappointing. 

I said pre season that I felt we should have signed a big beast of an 8 for those stinking winter nights. Well, we copped a real bad night on our biggest game of the season and Barclay was injured so we got caught with our pants down. I think Tadgh could be a very good 8, but he isnt a natural 8 as of now. Faletau is a world class 8 and was everywhere he should have been that night.

We waited and are still waiting for Moriarty, we took a chance on getting by without an 8. If we're being honest and take our Scarlet tinted glasses off, we got it wrong.

We had a great chance to get out of the group this year, and for me as a progression from last year, last 8 in europe was surely where we should be. People were even tipping us to go all the way.

So, yes, you cant expect us to be world beaters every game, but we really should have been in better shape for Bath, we had an amazing opportunity but effed it up.
 
I'm sorry.
I didn't realise that we were knocked out after two games?
 
We will still get out of this group.
 
Treviso back to back and then Bath on a dry track with Cubby and JB and Rob Evs back, and then Toulon at home.
 
Every chance to progress.


Sincerely hope your right pal. But expecting a dry track in Bath in January is very optimistic.

LOLLOLLOL
Yes, I went to Uni there. There is more chance of Scarlets getting out of the group than it being dry in Bath in Jan.


Posted By: ScarletBear
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.

It was down to their 8, 9 and 10 being better than our 8, 9 and 10.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

We didn’t lose to bath because Tagh had 8 on his back. We lost because we couldn’t get enough posession and Priestland kicked us back into the corners and nailed his pens.

It was down to their 8, 9 and 10 being better than our 8, 9 and 10.


I'd go as far as 1-10 tbh.


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 10:26pm
I agree with totallybiasedscarlet on this, we lost out 1-10 with their halfbacks enjoying themselves behind a pack of forwards which had the upper hand in the loose (I believe that we held our own at scrum time although there were a few dubious calls by poirte).
I also believe that whilst it looks like we were out of Europe already, if either Bath or Toulon win back to back games in December and we pick up back to back wins against Benetton then we could find ourselves in second place in our group. Alternatively if they win a game each (without bonus points being earned) then they could both be just a handful of points ahead of us leading into the last 2 rounds.
On the flip side, if we are out then we can concentrate on the pro 14. This is where you earn your ranking for next seasons European championship.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30 October 2017 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

I agree with totallybiasedscarlet on this, we lost out 1-10 with their halfbacks enjoying themselves behind a pack of forwards which had the upper hand in the loose (I believe that we held our own at scrum time although there were a few dubious calls by poirte).
I also believe that whilst it looks like we were out of Europe already, if either Bath or Toulon win back to back games in December and we pick up back to back wins against Benetton then we could find ourselves in second place in our group. Alternatively if they win a game each (without bonus points being earned) then they could both be just a handful of points ahead of us leading into the last 2 rounds.
On the flip side, if we are out then we can concentrate on the pro 14. This is where you earn your ranking for next seasons European championship.


Teams are keeping it pretty tight against us. Short passes, two or three trundling over the gainline. They know we don’t over commit so they know they can get a bit of go forward, particularly at the moment without the threat of Cubby and Barclay competing for a turnover, if they put the numbers into the breakdown.


Posted By: henry_winkler
Date Posted: 31 October 2017 at 12:00am
Beirne should not be 8
Boyde should not be 7
I'd like to see Boyde at 8 and Macleod openside.
I think this would give us better balance


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 31 October 2017 at 12:54am
Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

Beirne should not be 8
Boyde should not be 7
I'd like to see Boyde at 8 and Macleod openside.
I think this would give us better balance


I definitely don't see Boyde as an out and out 8, and think he's a pretty good 7. Wins quite a bit of turnover ball. We have pretty much 0 8's which is our problem. I was hoping Condy would come through.


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 31 October 2017 at 11:12am
Does Boyde have the pace to play 7 on a dry surface? To me his strength makes him more of a 6 or an occasional 8, perhaps 7 in a tight game or in poor conditions (e.g. Bath). MacLeod on the other hand is lighter and faster to get to the breakdown, but he could do with "filling out" a little more to play 8.



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